Pittsburgh Pirates: [Lie]Nutting Pledges To Increase Payroll to $75 Million[/Lie] - Pittsburgh Pirates

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[Lie]Nutting Pledges To Increase Payroll to $75 Million[/Lie]

#41 User is offline   Hoard's Tree-Trunk Legs 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 07:42 AM

QUOTE (u0007890 @ Jan 25 2010, 11:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
While I certainly agree with the majority, and while I certainly think Pjoma is a sanctimonious dickhead, I think we've become bizarro OBN...the same way anyone over there that doesn't suck the balls of management is reviled, the supporters are similarly dismissed here. Now I think we have 17 years of history on our side, but just sayin.'


+1

As a longtime reader of both sites I can say that CIA is unequivocally the superior message board. I'm amazed at the depths people will go to defend Bob Nutting on OBN and I have absolutely no faith that he will ever pony up the cash to make our payroll competitive with Milwaukee and Cincinnati. However, the unjustified contempt towards Huntington on this board is just baffling to me. For the first time since the late 90's I'm actually encouraged by the front office's direction and commitment to building from within.

Do I think Huntington is an excellent GM? Fuck no, and if he went out and made a terrible trade today I would hop aboard the Fire NH express right along with you. On the other hand, I remember the absolutely hopeless Littlefield years and appreciate that we have a GM who understands baseball analytics and isn't afraid to make bold, unpopular decisions. I look at Andrew McCutchen and Pedro Alvarez and see two potential superstars with six years of control who could possibly rival any one-two punch we've had since Bonds and Bonilla. I look at our starting nine on opening day and see potential long-term solutions at every position but second base and shortstop. While only a one-year rental, Iwamura is a league average player and significant upgrade over Delwyn Young. While very unlikely, I could even envision Cedeno putting it all together and having an Alexei Ramirez-type offensive season. I look at Andy LaRoche, Lastings Milledge and Jeff Clement and see three talented hitters who have the pedigree and minor league numbers to possibly outperform expectations. People might not want to admit it but there is serious offensive upside on this roster.

For the first time since 2003, I will open the season with the slightest hope that the Pirates will not be terrible and potentially be a fun team to watch. I know I'm in the minority here, but at this point, watching the Pirates merely make the playoffs would be significantly more meaningful to me than watching the Penguins or Steelers win another championship. I have serious doubts that the Pirates will ever have sustained success, but I do feel that things could come together for us in 2011 or 2012. Am I stupid for thinking this? Maybe, but I'm also desperate to watch competitive baseball at PNC Park. While I hate Nutting's frugality and Coonelly's douchiness, I actually like Huntington and think he is the least of our problems.
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#42 User is offline   ecbenito 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 08:12 AM

I'm not trying to be overly cynical here or anything, but there is absolutely no evidence to support that the Nuttings will spend 75million on payroll for the MLB roster. Yes they may have put money into the Dominican facility, but there is not one shred of proof that they are willing to put money into the MLB roster. It sucks for the franchise, but it's a pretty smart business move considering that they cover the payroll of the team before one single ticket or hotdog is sold.
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#43 User is offline   GoBucs21 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 09:40 AM

QUOTE (Hoard's Tree-Trunk Legs @ Jan 26 2010, 07:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
+1

As a longtime reader of both sites I can say that CIA is unequivocally the superior message board. I'm amazed at the depths people will go to defend Bob Nutting on OBN and I have absolutely no faith that he will ever pony up the cash to make our payroll competitive with Milwaukee and Cincinnati. However, the unjustified contempt towards Huntington on this board is just baffling to me. For the first time since the late 90's I'm actually encouraged by the front office's direction and commitment to building from within.

Do I think Huntington is an excellent GM? Fuck no, and if he went out and made a terrible trade today I would hop aboard the Fire NH express right along with you. On the other hand, I remember the absolutely hopeless Littlefield years and appreciate that we have a GM who understands baseball analytics and isn't afraid to make bold, unpopular decisions. I look at Andrew McCutchen and Pedro Alvarez and see two potential superstars with six years of control who could possibly rival any one-two punch we've had since Bonds and Bonilla. I look at our starting nine on opening day and see potential long-term solutions at every position but second base and shortstop. While only a one-year rental, Iwamura is a league average player and significant upgrade over Delwyn Young. While very unlikely, I could even envision Cedeno putting it all together and having an Alexei Ramirez-type offensive season. I look at Andy LaRoche, Lastings Milledge and Jeff Clement and see three talented hitters who have the pedigree and minor league numbers to possibly outperform expectations. People might not want to admit it but there is serious offensive upside on this roster.

For the first time since 2003, I will open the season with the slightest hope that the Pirates will not be terrible and potentially be a fun team to watch. I know I'm in the minority here, but at this point, watching the Pirates merely make the playoffs would be significantly more meaningful to me than watching the Penguins or Steelers win another championship. I have serious doubts that the Pirates will ever have sustained success, but I do feel that things could come together for us in 2011 or 2012. Am I stupid for thinking this? Maybe, but I'm also desperate to watch competitive baseball at PNC Park. While I hate Nutting's frugality and Coonelly's douchiness, I actually like Huntington and think he is the least of our problems.

I still haven't made a decision on NH but I'm a lot less comfortable with his operations now, than I was six or 18 months ago. I loved the idea of the big trades, if not the actual return on the trades. I loved it when he nearly completely disparaged the focus on bullpen building. I loved his first draft. Then it started to fall apart.

For me, it really started with the last draft. Whether the idea worked or not, doesn't matter to me. Many things that are ill-conceived work for a short period of time. However, if the idea is bad, the process it generated will eventually stop working. I think that's what will happen if NH keeps cheaping out on the top picks. Drafting Sanchez because he was signable, regardless of what they wanted to do later was a bad plan.

The Pirates saved maybe $2M by drafting a player that they admitted was a lesser prospect than some of the other players available to them. They saved money where it most needed to be spent. They saved money where the biggest return on spending is realized. They save a pittance, in baseball terms, when they didn't need to. They need to spend on the draft, not save.

That cheapness with the first pick was one of the first things that made me uneasy about the Pirates. Then came the inability to sign Sano. Didn't they claim to spend less on the draft and payroll to invest in Latin America and its players? Sano was about money. Agents don't care how much management likes them, they care only about making money. If the Pirates had made the better offer, Sano would have been signed. Even though I didn't like Sano, I liked less the Pirates unwillingness to go after young players. Especially, after they said they would.

Those were minor events compared to what happened this off season. Spending valuable resources on a team with severely limited resources, on role players, marginal producers, and relief players, is about as dumb as dumb gets. Its money that should be saved for top picks, maybe Bryce Harper, Latin American and Asian amateurs. The acquisitions of Church, Iwamura, and a new but ancient bullpen, serve no purpose but to avoid losing 100 games. Only the most blindly committed fans can argue that those players serve a greater purpose. Only the most ardently committed to NH can't see this isn't something very similar to what DL for seven years.

I was good with NH until this June. My faith in NH started to fade then. He accelerated my waning faith with bad moves this off season. I'm not completely lost on NH but he has some work to do and some mistakes to atone for.

PS...I ended the last paragraph with a preposition just to piss off Martini.
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#44 User is offline   The Lumber Company 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 09:48 AM

I would like to unequivocably and wholeheartedly side with GoBucs21 with respect to his above analysis. I also think that pjoma should officially change his screen name to "pjagina".
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#45 User is offline   DoctorJohnnyFever 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 10:21 AM

QUOTE
It's just like DJF said, the opportunity hasn't presented itself for them to spend big bucks.


I don't recall saying this.
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#46 User is offline   Pjoma 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 11:19 AM

QUOTE (LonghornBuc @ Jan 26 2010, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey PJ, you limp wristed lying piece of shit, if you want to call me out, dont do it while hiding under your mommys skirt. Yank the douchEbag out of your vagina and bring it on.

Cunt.


I figure when someone calls me irrational or moronic, they are making themselves look silly all on their own. I understand I am critical of everyone from Russell on up with this club. If that rubs people wrong, sorry.


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#47 Guest_sloshyj_*

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 11:40 AM

QUOTE (ecbenito @ Jan 26 2010, 08:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not trying to be overly cynical here or anything, but there is absolutely no evidence to support that the Nuttings will spend 75million on payroll for the MLB roster. Yes they may have put money into the Dominican facility, but there is not one shred of proof that they are willing to put money into the MLB roster. It sucks for the franchise, but it's a pretty smart business move considering that they cover the payroll of the team before one single ticket or hotdog is sold.


Well, now we have the GM going on record stating that the payroll will reach the Reds and Brewers, and that it will happen with the current core. Though we have heard reasons why the team couldn't, or wouldn't, spend $75 million in the past, we've not heard NH comes and use the phrasing he used here.

Now, the caveat he's put out there relates to the current core being worth that investment. Meaning Alvarez, McCutchen, Lincoln, Sanchez, etc. The team won't go out and overspend to bring in free agent talent until the core group of farm-raised talent gels into something worthy of investment.

Lip service? Maybe so. And maybe fans have a right to be angry, that they should be spending the $75 million regardless, even in a shitty year, to bring in Adam Dunn and appease the cynics. But if I was in charge of a small market team, and it was my money, this is how I'd want to go at it. Attract inexpensive talent via the various drafts and, when it's a squad capable of 85 wins, pay to keep it together and augment.

In my mind, the question shoudn't be whether this is the right tactic to take - it is, and I'm sorry to the Adam Dunn fans, but spending to spend and see incremental improvement is dumb - the better question is whether the philosophy is actually being followed by the current management group. The Sano situation, to me, does not demonstrate following this plan. Making Iwamura the highest paid player on the 2010 squad, when he likely would have been available cheaper later, does not follow this plan. Rent-a-vets at the expense of giving Jeff Clement a chance does not follow this plan.

In my mind, one can be critical of the execution of the plan, but not of its merits as the only way out for a small market team. Just be smart. Don't blow opportunities. Build a good core and try to keep it together, flipping pieces going forward to keep that engine running.

What happens around here is, because NH will go out and do something seemingly not in keeping with the plan, it's throw the baby out with the bath water time. "Why aren't the cheapskates spending $75 million every year." Why? Because that's idiotic business if the extra $25 million nets you 4 extra wins. Does Adam Dunn being run out by the Nats really appease anyone? The fans? Does it demonstrate something to their fan base as they proceed to lose a shit ton of games? "Hey, but at least we spent up to an arbitrary number!" Please.

I still stand behind the plan as the only demonstration in the last 17 years of something remotely intelligent in the management of the PBC. I will criticize the actions made by management that do not serve the bigger plan (even though I'm sure they serve some other non-populace need, like keeping MLB happy or keeping us from losing 120 games, etc.). But I will "defend" the plan around here, and be labeled an apologist if that's what it takes, because the plan is what we were desperate for in 1999... and 2002... and 2005...

At some point, it's time to stop bitching and root for the team you claim to support.
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#48 User is offline   oblongatta 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:14 PM

QUOTE (sloshyj @ Jan 26 2010, 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now, the caveat he's put out there relates to the current core being worth that investment. Meaning Alvarez, McCutchen, Lincoln, Sanchez, etc. The team won't go out and overspend to bring in free agent talent until the core group of farm-raised talent gels into something worthy of investment.



Here's the problem. As it has already been mentioned in this thread by Crim, the Pirates had to trade Bay because they just didn't have enough talent. What happens in 5 years if we have an all-star in Alvarez/McCutchen (or both) and yet the rest of the team isn't good enough? The argument will again be made to trade the biggest chip they have to get some more talent and start the cycle over hoping they hit gold the next time.

And the Pirates were in a similar situation. They had Bay, they had an all-star in Sanchez and a solid player/all-star in McLouth but it wasn't enough. A group committed financially would resigned these players while developing the minors. Bottom line, the team would be better off 4 years from now with an aging Bay and the hope of Alvarez, McCutchen, Lincoln, Sanchez etc. than they will be with the players they got for Bay. Instead they got those players and spent $13 million on junk like Aki Iwamura, Octavio Dotel, Ryan Church, DJ Carrasco, Bobby Crosby, Ramon Vazquez and Brendan Donnelley, which if you do the math is about $3.5 million less than Bay's contract on a per year basis.

There simply is no financial commitment to winning in this organization and I have no faith that we'll see it when Alvarez is about to become a free agent.



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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:20 PM

QUOTE (cbh @ Jan 25 2010, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For me it would be IF Alvarez turns into a super-duper star and stays at 3B and Nutting lets him walk, THAT'S when I would completely lose faith in this organization.


No disrespect cbh, but if one is to assume Nutting is truly being disingenuous, this is precisely the response he's looking for. And as that scenario may be the smoking gun for the masses to finally acknowledge Nutting's true intentions, I'd hope most could come to some sort of conclusion long before 2016 (when Alvarez would likely be eligible for free agency).

So I'm not sure we need to give Nutting that much more rope. We already gave this organization 6 years with DL. And now 2-1/2 years into the NH regime (and three years into the Nutting regime), I don't need to give him another 6 years to prove he's a man of his word. So here are some key markers in the near future:

1. Will they draft the best talent in the draft with the first pick regardless of price?
2. Will they keep their own players whom are either arbitration eligible or perhaps do not fit in with their own "internal values"?

And #2 is critical. I deeply resent that term and I resent even more how accepted it has become. At some point the Pirates will have to overpay for talent. Then can't get a bargain with all 25 players on their roster. And releasing Capps was an enormous red flag. As was the McLouth trade.
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#50 Guest_sloshyj_*

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:33 PM

QUOTE (oblongatta @ Jan 26 2010, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And the Pirates were in a similar situation. They had Bay, they had an all-star in Sanchez and a solid player/all-star in McLouth but it wasn't enough.


That's true, it wasn't enough, but not because of what those three were doing on the field. We didn't have anywhere near the talent in the minors to support that core going forward. In 2008, the season you reference, the following players were considered the top-10 guys in the system:
  1. Andrew McCutchen, OF, Grade A-
  2. Steven Pearce, OF-1B, Grade B+
  3. Neil Walker, 3B, Grade B (not convinced he'll hit quite as well as they expect)
  4. Daniel Moskos, LHP, Grade B
  5. Brad Lincoln, RHP, Grade C+ (pending recovery from TJ)
  6. Brian Bixler, SS, Grade C+
  7. Shelby Ford, 2B, Grade C+
  8. Duke Welker, RHP, Grade C+
  9. Brian Friday, SS, Grade C+
  10. Andrew Walker, C, Grade C+
I think NH correctly surmised that, without infusion of talent from both the draft AND trades, that minor league system would produce little to support the core of Bay, McLouth, et al. Blowing it up and implementing his own plan was the correct move.

The difference in three years will be, in theory, that the core of talent in the majors will be augmented by a host of young talent coming up, that the benefit of flipping all of those guys in 2008 & 2009 (and hopefully 2010 with Duke, Maholm, Doumit, etc.), along with smart (and maybe risk-taking drafting) will result in a continuous source of good talent, and that a commitment to Alvarez for big money will have the result of sustained winning seasons.

At no time in the past 15 years has the fact that the Pirates have NOT spent to keep Giles or Bay or whoever else in town kept them from reaching the promised land (short of spending $100+ million and just buying it). It's been a lack of talent up and down the system. Period.
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#51 User is offline   SyrBucco 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:49 PM

QUOTE (cbh @ Jan 25 2010, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And everyone else's point is that if they had drafted anyone with more potential in the first round chances are Sanchez still would have been there in the 2nd (or as the 49th pick in round 1). Again, you're using hindsight to defend a move that didn't make sense at the time it happened, and I can absolutely guarantee you that if Sanchez hit .100/.200/.250 in his first minor league stint with 15 errors you wouldn't be having this conversation.

I really don't care to intrude in this pissing match but I will say this about the Sanchez choice: most people had Sanchez rated to go someplace between where the Pirates would pick in the first and second rounds. So if the Bucs really wanted Sanchez - and they say they did - then they either had to overdraft him in the first round or not choose him a t all, since he likely wouldn't be around in Round 2. If it were the NFL draft, the Bucs could have traded down. They didn't have that option.

Usually when the Pirates think they know something other teams don't, as in their judgment of Sanchez, they are proven wrong. I really want this time to be different. I was on record as hoping they'd pick Crow or Green. They didn't. Early returns point to them makling a good choice. I'm not going to bother busting their balls about this particular error when there are so many things that are much easier to criticize:

Sano negotiations fuckup.
Shitty Bay trade.
Shitty Gorzelanny/Grabow for Hart/Ascanio trade.
Paying Vasquez too much for too long. (Yes, I was wrong about this when it happened.)
We got nothing from Capps - or Robinzon Diaz. And prolly soon from Moss.

Finally, I really don't like the whole duplicate identity thing, but Pjoma is clearly not the first guy to go down this path. Penguin's been quoting Pjoma as A.Senter over at OnlyBucs for some time now, and I can see where that pisses off Pjoma, who posts over at OBN under Bloop and Blast. Pengy is apparently trying some strange social experiment, borrowing a page from The Book of Sloshy. Winter is busy stirring up shit as Doumit's Girl. Others post there under different ID's than here as a matter of self-preservation, since the OBN bans strike at any time and sometimes for no good reason. I rarely even look at Willton's board so I have no idea what fun and games are underway there.

I trust that I'm not disclosing anything here that isn't common knowledge to anyone who pays attention to posts on both boards. You can change a poster's name, but it's hard to change their substance or style. Unless you're Sloshy. Or Winter. That Doumit's Girl shit kind of freaks me out, though.

As I review this post, I realize that I haven't made much of a post except to defend Pjoma on a couple of points. Much of the shit he gets is deserved, but sometimes it just ain't so.

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#52 User is online   tobaccoroad 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:49 PM

This team could not have possibly held onto those players AND simultaneously make the financial commitments necessary to sustain a competitive team for the future. At least, not with Nutbags at the helm anyway. To keep that team intact through 2011 would have required payrolls in excess of $60mil and possibly $70 mil. At that level, even if Nutbags was willing to spend $$, I don't see where we could spend the $10 mil per draft that we would need to spend to keep the talent level in the system what it would need to be to maintain the pipeline.

This is not to give Nutjob a break, because I think that it's more than likely we see a team in 2011 with a sub .500 record and another rebuild on the way....simply because "the plan" has not been especially well executed. But I agree with Slosh that "the plan" that is espoused by the current braintrust (even if it's not followed very well) is the correct one for the franchise going forward. The team as it stood in 2008 was going nowhere and the system had a complete derth of talent at all levels. We have quantity of prospects (suspects) and a few A-B types now that the trades and two drafts have taken place.

I just fear that the core players won't all live up to the hype and thus create the ad infinitum death spiral of low payrolls due to the team constantly not quite being ready to compete. I had some faith in the system with regard to scouting...but it is waning a bit. And because the only way for this team to get competitive and maintain some semblance of such for a sustained period of time is through their talent evaluators...well...it doesn't give me a lot of hope.

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:58 PM

QUOTE (SyrBucco @ Jan 26 2010, 09:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Finally, I really don't like the whole duplicate identity thing, but Pjoma is clearly not the first guy to go down this path. Penguin's been quoting Pjoma as A.Senter over at OnlyBucs for some time now, and I can see where that pisses off Pjoma, who posts over at OBN under Bloop and Blast. Pengy is apparently trying some strange social experiment, borrowing a page from The Book of Sloshy. Winter is busy stirring up shit as Doumit's Girl. Others post there under different ID's than here as a matter of self-preservation, since the OBN bans strike at any time and sometimes for no good reason. I rarely even look at Willton's board so I have no idea what fun and games are underway there.

I trust that I'm not disclosing anything here that isn't common knowledge to anyone who pays attention to posts on both boards. You can change a poster's name, but it's hard to change their substance or style. Unless you're Sloshy. Or Winter. That Doumit's Girl shit kind of freaks me out, though.

As I review this post, I realize that I haven't made much of a post except to defend Pjoma on a couple of points. Much of the shit he gets is deserved, but sometimes it just ain't so.

You may want to get your facts straight before you start making such accusations. Because not only is what you just posted most certainly not common knowledge, it's wrong. And you can go fuck yourself.

Dick.

"The business of baseball is to make money, not break even. I don't understand why you think the Pirates should run their team like a charity." - Willlton 6/18/2009

"The Bay trade doesn't look like it (a slam dunk winner), but if you take into account the fact that all they lost was eight months of Jason Bay's services, as well as the fact that even the Red Sox look like they won't be able to re-sign him, it's not nearly the loser many people seem to think." - tWTM 11/26/2009

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"Hanrahan and Cedeno would be a gross overpayment for Belt. Sorry, but I'll stick with my realistic analysis of the market and the teams involved." - Steve Zielinski 5/25/2011

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#54 User is offline   ecbenito 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 01:03 PM

QUOTE (SyrBucco @ Jan 26 2010, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Finally, I really don't like the whole duplicate identity thing, but Pjoma is clearly not the first guy to go down this path. Penguin's been quoting Pjoma as A.Senter over at OnlyBucs for some time now, and I can see where that pisses off Pjoma, who posts over at OBN under Bloop and Blast. Pengy is apparently trying some strange social experiment, borrowing a page from The Book of Sloshy. Winter is busy stirring up shit as Doumit's Girl. Others post there under different ID's than here as a matter of self-preservation, since the OBN bans strike at any time and sometimes for no good reason. I rarely even look at Willton's board so I have no idea what fun and games are underway there.

I trust that I'm not disclosing anything here that isn't common knowledge to anyone who pays attention to posts on both boards. You can change a poster's name, but it's hard to change their substance or style. Unless you're Sloshy. Or Winter. That Doumit's Girl shit kind of freaks me out, though.

As I review this post, I realize that I haven't made much of a post except to defend Pjoma on a couple of points. Much of the shit he gets is deserved, but sometimes it just ain't so.


SyrBuccoSummarizer: "Penguin has done more damage to OBN than tWTM and Omar on their worst day"


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#55 User is offline   SyrBucco 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 01:09 PM

QUOTE (Penguin @ Jan 26 2010, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No disrespect cbh, but if one is to assume Nutting is truly being disingenuous, this is precisely the response he's looking for. And as that scenario may be the smoking gun for the masses to finally acknowledge Nutting's true intentions, I'd hope most could come to some sort of conclusion long before 2016 (when Alvarez would likely be eligible for free agency).

So I'm not sure we need to give Nutting that much more rope. We already gave this organization 6 years with DL. And now 2-1/2 years into the NH regime (and three years into the Nutting regime), I don't need to give him another 6 years to prove he's a man of his word. So here are some key markers in the near future:

1. Will they draft the best talent in the draft with the first pick regardless of price?
2. Will they keep their own players whom are either arbitration eligible or perhaps do not fit in with their own "internal values"?

And #2 is critical. I deeply resent that term and I resent even more how accepted it has become. At some point the Pirates will have to overpay for talent. Then can't get a bargain with all 25 players on their roster. And releasing Capps was an enormous red flag. As was the McLouth trade.

Excellent post.
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#56 User is offline   crosscuttersno1 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 01:10 PM

There is alot of hostility around here.

Anyone for a CIA night part III?
Failure is the key to success.
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#57 User is offline   oblongatta 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 01:16 PM

QUOTE (tobaccoroad @ Jan 26 2010, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This team could not have possibly held onto those players AND simultaneously make the financial commitments necessary to sustain a competitive team for the future.


Why not? They just spent $13 million on useless junk that definitely won't be here or have any value in 4 years. Bay (or McLouth/Sanchez) may have. Sure all of them might have been too much of a burden but I see little evidence that Bay alone would be. The signings of those players could have just had spots taken my major league minimum players until the supposed pricey draft and young talent arrived.


Yeah, it's all a good story but I just don't see the financial commitment. I forget, did the Pirates spend more on the draft than other teams? I believe they did in the Alvarez year but did they this year?





You're pretty on the inside,
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You're pretty on the inside,
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#58 User is offline   SyrBucco 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 01:25 PM

QUOTE (ecbenito @ Jan 26 2010, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
SyrBuccoSummarizer: "Penguin has done more damage to OBN than tWTM and Omar on their worst day"

Apparently I am in error on this point.
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#59 User is offline   jpbucco 

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 01:27 PM

QUOTE (u0007890 @ Jan 25 2010, 11:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
While I certainly agree with the majority, and while I certainly think Pjoma is a sanctimonious dickhead, I think we've become bizarro OBN...the same way anyone over there that doesn't suck the balls of management is reviled, the supporters are similarly dismissed here. Now I think we have 17 years of history on our side, but just sayin.'


Well said....A little hope is never a bad thing. I'm glad pjoma is here to counter the mountains of negativity around here.

NH has done some good things and some bad (especially Sano) but the jury is still out on him...though they're starting to look worried.

I think some of the venom being directed at NH is the result of Bonifay and Littlefields blunders and lies. We all took them at their word and waited for the inevitable turn around to come. It didn't. And I don't think the fans held them accountable.

Now we're all making up for it....in spades. I bet no other teams fans analyze and agonize over every minor transaction the way Pirate fans do....but fuck it....it's all we've got.
Oh shit! There's stickers!
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#60 Guest_sloshyj_*

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 01:31 PM

QUOTE (oblongatta @ Jan 26 2010, 01:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, it's all a good story but I just don't see the financial commitment. I forget, did the Pirates spend more on the draft than other teams? I believe they did in the Alvarez year but did they this year?

No, they didn't, but it was consensus that it was a weak draft class.
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