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Loyalty in Sports OBN Proves there isn't Any Rate Topic: -----

#21 User is offline   ecbenito 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 09:02 AM

View PostGoBucs21, on 11 June 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

And when prospects do fail, it's the players' fault, not the FO.

or it's a good thing they failed so NEAL doesn't have to spend money. BEING GOOD ENOUGH IS JUST FINE
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#22 User is offline   Trey_Beamon 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 09:02 AM

Meadows, BTW, has really struggled lately.

He's hitting .178 (8 for 45) in his past 10 games and his season triple slash line has dipped to .281/.357/.367.
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#23 User is offline   mvk112 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 09:09 AM

View PostMa13tt0, on 11 June 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

Jesus how many of those guys were Pirates at some point.


Only 2 I believe - Lastings Milledge and Travis Snider
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#24 User is offline   mvk112 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 09:14 AM

View Postmvk112, on 11 June 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:

Only 2 I believe - Lastings Milledge and Travis Snider


Hmmm... Ruben Mateo had a .242/.359/.515/.874 line with 3 HR in 39 PA for the 2004 Pirates. They promptly sold him to the KC Royals on July 1st.
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#25 User is offline   Ma13tt0 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 09:42 AM

View Postmvk112, on 11 June 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:

Only 2 I believe - Lastings Milledge and Travis Snider


Hmm I thought Franceour was. And Delmon Young. Maybe they were on the team in a video game or their names kept being thrown out as trade rumors. Or dumpster dives more likely.
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#26 User is offline   Trey_Beamon 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 09:45 AM

View PostMa13tt0, on 11 June 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Hmm I thought Franceour was. And Delmon Young. Maybe they were on the team in a video game or their names kept being thrown out as trade rumors. Or dumpster dives more likely.


Baldelli, Kubel and Hermida were all rumored to be Pirates at one point or another, too.

If I remember correctly, Baldelli chose the Red Sox over the Pirates after he left Tampa Bay years ago.
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#27 User is offline   silverspring 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 10:09 AM

View PostTrey_Beamon, on 11 June 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

Meadows, BTW, has really struggled lately.

He's hitting .178 (8 for 45) in his past 10 games and his season triple slash line has dipped to .281/.357/.367.

Wrong guy. Can't you read? Dogknot was talking about "Auston" Meadows. Don't you feel stupid now?
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#28 User is offline   Gideon Clarke 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 10:18 AM

View PostGoBucs21, on 10 June 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

I personally believe there is almost no loyalty in sports.

Andrew McCutchen's contract proves that there is loyalty in sports, but that it is hardly ever rewarded or even appreciated for what it is.
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#29 User is offline   silverspring 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 10:20 AM

View PostGideon Clarke, on 11 June 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

Andrew McCutchen's contract proves that there is loyalty in sports, but that it is hardly ever rewarded or even appreciated for what it is.

It's a crime that the front office isn't at max effort to win him a pennant.
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#30 User is offline   silverspring 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 10:21 AM

View PostMa13tt0, on 11 June 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Hmm I thought Franceour was. And Delmon Young. Maybe they were on the team in a video game or their names kept being thrown out as trade rumors. Or dumpster dives more likely.

We had Delwyn (sp?) Young.
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#31 User is offline   Ma13tt0 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 10:23 AM

View PostTrey_Beamon, on 11 June 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

Baldelli, Kubel and Hermida were all rumored to be Pirates at one point or another, too.

If I remember correctly, Baldelli chose the Red Sox over the Pirates after he left Tampa Bay years ago.


I remember Hermida for sure. Baldelli I thought so but wasn't sure. Same with Kubel.

I thought someone brought up Austin Kearns at one point too.

#DumpsterDiving #GameChanger
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#32 User is offline   GoBucs21 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 10:33 AM

View PostGideon Clarke, on 11 June 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

Andrew McCutchen's contract proves that there is loyalty in sports, but that it is hardly ever rewarded or even appreciated for what it is.

I'm assuming you mean it's McCutchen's loyalty to the team and fans. Perhaps but I think it was more about getting a lot more guaranteed money early in his career rather than risk not getting later if he waited.

I like to think that McCutchen is a different player. I think that he does like where he is, which is different from loyalty. Still, there were many other factors that played into that contract.

But let's assume he did sign that contract out of loyalty, we can rest assured that the FO's past behavior and their current unwillingness to extend Walker, that the Pirates won't reciprocate that loyalty. As the OBN thread shows, "fans" don't want the Pirates to reward McCutchen's loyalty. The OBN thread goes beyond a lack of reciprocity, they expect and in some cases, demand more loyalty from McCutchen.
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#33 User is offline   GoBucs21 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 10:35 AM

View Postsilverspring, on 11 June 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

It's a crime that the front office isn't at max effort to win him a pennant.

That would be another demonstration of loyalty to McCutchen and the fans.
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#34 User is offline   Gideon Clarke 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 10:38 AM

View PostGoBucs21, on 11 June 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

I'm assuming you mean it's McCutchen's loyalty to the team and fans.

Of course not. I mean that NEAL offering McCutchen an opportunity to play for NEAL-constructed teams for a 75% discount is the ultimate demonstration of loyalty.


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#35 Guest_sloshyj_*

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 11:58 AM

Is this thread really about "loyalty in baseball?" As in, one should have loyalty to a player?

I'm not sure I follow. Flipping any player before he becomes a liability seems like common sense to me.
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#36 Guest_blurjose_*

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 12:41 PM

View Postsloshyj, on 11 June 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

Is this thread really about "loyalty in baseball?" As in, one should have loyalty to a player?

I'm not sure I follow. Flipping any player before he becomes a liability seems like common sense to me.

No, it's about the double standard that some fans have whereby they call a player greedy if he doesn't take a hometown discount but never call ownership greedy for being cheap. It's about the lack of nuance in the way OBN fans automatically defend ownership on this basis.

I don't think most people here would disagree with getting trading/releasing players who don't help the team.
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#37 User is offline   v2burghboy 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 12:48 PM

View PostPSU4Lyfe, on 11 June 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

What happens when they find out Austin Meadows is white?


And he doesn't even have as much swag as Cutch.
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#38 Guest_sloshyj_*

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 12:48 PM

View Postblurjose, on 11 June 2015 - 12:41 PM, said:

I don't think most people here would disagree with getting trading/releasing players who don't help the team.

I'm not so sure of that. If I were to start a thread about wanting to "flip McCutchen before he starts earning more than he's worth," I'd be -1'd into submission. I think some would advocate for making sure he retires a Pirate, even if that means paying a premium for him for less productive seasons.

Because on the other side of the OBN argument remain fans who hate ownership and could care less if they make or lose money. And thinking of that sort of fandom as a "true fan," as opposed to being out-of-touch and non-pragmatic, is what I think is being equated with loyalty in the initial remarks.

I might be wrong. But I want the Nuttings to make money because when they do, they spend more of it on the team. Maybe not in proportion to what they should spend relative to their profits, but I can't change that. I continue to operate in the real world, where things are the way they are, and decision have to made that are pragmatic and grounded in reality. Too often that's bastardized or overly simplified as being a lover of ownership.

The Pirates can't afford to be loyal to a player. It's antithetical to winning baseball given current conditions.
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#39 Guest_blurjose_*

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 01:10 PM

View Postsloshyj, on 11 June 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

The Pirates can't afford to be loyal to a player. It's antithetical to winning baseball given current conditions.

While I certainly can't speak for everyone, I actually don't support blind loyalty to a player (nor loyalty to management). I support paying players who help the team win. If flipping someone actually becomes a smart baseball decision, I'm fine with that.
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#40 User is offline   mvk112 

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 01:14 PM

View Postsloshyj, on 11 June 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:


The Pirates can't afford to be loyal to a player. It's antithetical to winning baseball given current conditions.


Current conditions?

The sport is awash in cash that is being shared across all teams... the Pirates are making money hand over fist in the current conditions. The franchise that these guys bought for $95M 20 years ago is worth almost 10 times that much now, and Forbes estimated them to be 5th in all of MLB in operating income last year, and middle of the pack in revenue.
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