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Pens offseason thread Might as well... Rate Topic: -----

#21 User is online   GoBucs21 

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 09:09 AM

View PostUtterly Irredeemable, on 25 April 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

http://fivethirtyeig...or-an-nhl-team/

Interesting piece on the idea of an NHL team in Las Vegas. While I get what Bettman has hoped to accomplish with all of the warm-weather expansion, it's really telling that franchises in Miami and Phoenix and Raleigh flounder while a far smaller market like Winnipeg is booming. If they expand and don't put a team in Quebec City, that'll be a terrible mistake.

Only the NFL would be successful in Las Vegas but then again, if you put an NFL franchise in Ottumwa, Iowa it would be successful. There are simply too many ways to spend money rather than going to hockey, basketball, or baseball game.
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#22 User is offline   aso513 

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 09:20 AM

View PostTrey_Beamon, on 25 April 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

Aren't Ehrhoff's concussion issues a bit concerning? Unless the market for defensemen is thin, is it wise to throw money at a guy with that kind of injury history?


Outside of this year, Ehrhoff has been pretty durable. He's going to the west coast though I believe.
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#23 User is offline   ecbenito 

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 09:58 AM

View PostUtterly Irredeemable, on 25 April 2015 - 08:53 AM, said:

@ASaunders_PSN: #Pens UFAs: Greiss, Martin, Ehrhoff, Chorney, Comeau, Downie, Winnik, Adams, Lapierre, Ebbett, Megna

RFAs: Bennett, Cole, Dumoulin, Wilson

love what I saw out of Chorney this post season, he'd be a great bottom pairing guy. I'd like to see one of Martin or Erhoff back, but I don't know if either of them want to be back. Comeau and Winnik are perfect 3rd line guys, but someone is probably going to overpay for both of them. Cole, Dumouin and Wilson....it's really going to depend on how much they want. Lapierre was a total asshole in the playoffs and I loved every minute of it. Greiss, Adams, Ebbett, Megna and Bennett, good luck elsewhere.
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#24 User is offline   bucc-o-pain 

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 10:06 AM

View Postecbenito, on 25 April 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

love what I saw out of Chorney this post season, he'd be a great bottom pairing guy. I'd like to see one of Martin or Erhoff back, but I don't know if either of them want to be back. Comeau and Winnik are perfect 3rd line guys, but someone is probably going to overpay for both of them. Cole, Dumouin and Wilson....it's really going to depend on how much they want. Lapierre was a total asshole in the playoffs and I loved every minute of it. Greiss, Adams, Ebbett, Megna and Bennett, good luck elsewhere.

So you'd advocate bringing a guy back based on the fact that he ran his mouth in a couple playoff games while ignoring the fact that he sucks at the game of hockey?

Oh and definitely let someone overpay for Winnik, he didn't bring what he was suppose to bring to the table. Yet another Rutherford acquisition that underperformed.
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#25 User is offline   ecbenito 

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 10:12 AM

View Postbucc-o-pain, on 25 April 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

So you'd advocate bringing a guy back based on the fact that he ran his mouth in a couple playoff games while ignoring the fact that he sucks at the game of hockey?

Oh and definitely let someone overpay for Winnik, he didn't bring what he was suppose to bring to the table. Yet another Rutherford acquisition that underperformed.

oh I'm not necessarily advocating bringing back Lapierre, just stating that he was a gigantic asshole in the playoffs and I enjoyed it.
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Posted 25 April 2015 - 10:27 AM

I have to disagree about Chorney. He's fine as an organizational depth guy but you really don't want Taylor Chorney in your top 6.
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Posted 25 April 2015 - 10:30 AM

View PostCRIMHEAD, on 24 April 2015 - 10:38 PM, said:

I think you can add Kapanen and Sundqvist to that roster.

I actually have no problems with Lovejoy at 1.1M. I also think giving Dumoulin a shot is a no-brainer. Moving Scuderi is such a no-brainer. That being said, I don't think we should hesitate to look at some of the FA defensemen.

If we want a better winger, though, thinking we will have to make a deal, as the FA market is pretty weak.


The Rangers, and the rest of the NHL, also have no problem with bringing back Lovejoy. They look forward to it.
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#28 User is offline   DoctorJohnnyFever 

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 10:40 AM

This year's free agent forwards is just miserable.

I know the Penguins had interest in trading for Justin Williams, and I've heard he is going to reach out to both Pennsylvania teams because his wife is from Harrisburg and they want to move back East, and if Rick Tocchet is still on the staff there's another connection there because Tocchet loves him. Williams is a really good player but I don't know if I want to see them commit more money to another mid-30s winger that has a lot of mileage on his body. He's played a lot of physical, grinding hockey the past few years and he's not exactly in his prime anymore.

After him, who really stands out to you on this list?

http://www.hockeybuz...year=2015&pos=F


I've always liked Sean Bergenheim as a third-liner, but when it comes to top-six options it's just more of the same on the free agent market. To fix the top-six it's either going to have to come from within or via trade, and I just don't know what they have to trade.

Kasperi Kapanen better be the real deal.
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#29 User is offline   ecbenito 

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 12:28 PM

View PostDoctorJohnnyFever, on 25 April 2015 - 10:40 AM, said:

This year's free agent forwards is just miserable.

I know the Penguins had interest in trading for Justin Williams, and I've heard he is going to reach out to both Pennsylvania teams because his wife is from Harrisburg and they want to move back East, and if Rick Tocchet is still on the staff there's another connection there because Tocchet loves him. Williams is a really good player but I don't know if I want to see them commit more money to another mid-30s winger that has a lot of mileage on his body. He's played a lot of physical, grinding hockey the past few years and he's not exactly in his prime anymore.

After him, who really stands out to you on this list?

http://www.hockeybuz...year=2015&pos=F


I've always liked Sean Bergenheim as a third-liner, but when it comes to top-six options it's just more of the same on the free agent market. To fix the top-six it's either going to have to come from within or via trade, and I just don't know what they have to trade.

Kasperi Kapanen better be the real deal.

woof, that's not a good list of free agents. the only one that looks remotely interesting is Michael Ryder, but again he's on the wrong side of 30 and the last time he put up decent numbers was back when he played in Dallas. I know he's been a colossal disappointment barring his first few weeks in Pittsburgh, but I'm really hoping that Perron's struggles are injury related and he can contribute as a top 6 forward. They don't really have any draft picks to move (and they fucking need them just to replenish the pipeline) but I really hope that they can move Scuderi, Kunitz, Sutter, Bennett, etc this offseason maybe for a younger player that needs a change of scenery and some bullshit draft picks just to clear some cap space. My fear is that they're going to panic and move someone like Pouliot for Zach Wheeler.
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#30 User is offline   bucc-o-pain 

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 12:33 PM

The good news is there are plenty of shitty hockey players on that list that can run their mouth like an asshole. So there's that.
Utah, get me two.
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#31 User is offline   Penguin 

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 04:37 PM

So if the Penguins need to add a couple of forwards, are potentially losing a couple of defensemen and the FA market stinx, how exactly realistic is it to expect them to improve?

Outside of course trading Malkin and Ted Lilly for draft picks......
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#32 User is offline   ohio_is_for_buttlovers 

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 06:32 PM

They could trade Martin and ehrhoff prior to the FA period if they know they have no chance at signing them. Didn't the Pens trade a second for Hamhuis in that scenario a few years back?
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Posted 25 April 2015 - 06:35 PM

View Postohio_is_for_buttlovers, on 25 April 2015 - 06:32 PM, said:

They could trade Martin and ehrhoff prior to the FA period if they know they have no chance at signing them. Didn't the Pens trade a second for Hamhuis in that scenario a few years back?


A 3rd. But no one seems to do that anymore.
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#34 User is offline   DoctorJohnnyFever 

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 08:56 PM

Wanted to put this in the right thread.

I'm honestly quite surprised that Jim Rutherford seems to be coming back. I was pretty convinced that he was either A) going to be fired, or B) Retire/resign.

Now that neither is happening, I still wonder if that's a good thing. I know U has some sort of special connection with Jim Rutherford, but in the end, the past season just seemed to be a waste that didn't really accomplish anything. It wasn't a rebuilding year. They didn't win. His track record as a GM is horrendous.

Ray Shero is largely responsible for the problems on the roster and in the farm system and with the salary cap, but what has Rutherford done to fix it?

When he took over nearly one year ago you could fairly say the Penguins had the following needs/holes:

-- They needed to get younger and faster
-- They needed at least one or two more top-six forwards
-- They needed to improve their depth
-- They needed another top-four defenseman
-- They needed to find out what they had in guys like Beau Bennett and Simon Despres

One year later, going into this offseason, I think you can fairly say the Penguins have the following needs/holes:

-- They need to get younger and faster
-- They need at least one or two more top-six forwards
-- They need to improve their depth
-- They need another top-four defenseman
-- They need to find out what they have in Beau Bennett, while Simon Despres turned into Ben Lovejoy

The free agent market is brutal for forwards, though there are some intriguing options on defense, but they will likely be incredibly expensive (Guys like Jeff Petry and Cody Franson are probably looking at $5-6 million a year on the open market). They're going to have to explore the trade market for forwards but they have almost nothing of value to trade. Maatta and Pouliot would be the guys that bring the most value but they need them to play major roles (plus they're too valuable to trade anyway) and after that, the likes of Harrington and Dumoulin aren't going to bring any sort of a return except the forward equivalent of them.

Hopefully they commit to playing Kapanen and Sundqvist. They may not have any other choice.
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#35 User is offline   hir51 

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 09:07 PM

View PostDoctorJohnnyFever, on 28 April 2015 - 08:56 PM, said:

Wanted to put this in the right thread.

I'm honestly quite surprised that Jim Rutherford seems to be coming back. I was pretty convinced that he was either A) going to be fired, or B) Retire/resign.

Now that neither is happening, I still wonder if that's a good thing. I know U has some sort of special connection with Jim Rutherford, but in the end, the past season just seemed to be a waste that didn't really accomplish anything. It wasn't a rebuilding year. They didn't win. His track record as a GM is horrendous.

Ray Shero is largely responsible for the problems on the roster and in the farm system and with the salary cap, but what has Rutherford done to fix it?

When he took over nearly one year ago you could fairly say the Penguins had the following needs/holes:

-- They needed to get younger and faster
-- They needed at least one or two more top-six forwards
-- They needed to improve their depth
-- They needed another top-four defenseman
-- They needed to find out what they had in guys like Beau Bennett and Simon Despres

One year later, going into this offseason, I think you can fairly say the Penguins have the following needs/holes:

-- They need to get younger and faster
-- They need at least one or two more top-six forwards
-- They need to improve their depth
-- They need another top-four defenseman
-- They need to find out what they have in Beau Bennett, while Simon Despres turned into Ben Lovejoy

The free agent market is brutal for forwards, though there are some intriguing options on defense, but they will likely be incredibly expensive (Guys like Jeff Petry and Cody Franson are probably looking at $5-6 million a year on the open market). They're going to have to explore the trade market for forwards but they have almost nothing of value to trade. Maatta and Pouliot would be the guys that bring the most value but they need them to play major roles (plus they're too valuable to trade anyway) and after that, the likes of Harrington and Dumoulin aren't going to bring any sort of a return except the forward equivalent of them.

Hopefully they commit to playing Kapanen and Sundqvist. They may not have any other choice.

PCP
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#36 User is offline   ecbenito 

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 09:24 PM

View PostDoctorJohnnyFever, on 28 April 2015 - 08:56 PM, said:

Wanted to put this in the right thread.

I'm honestly quite surprised that Jim Rutherford seems to be coming back. I was pretty convinced that he was either A) going to be fired, or B) Retire/resign.

Now that neither is happening, I still wonder if that's a good thing. I know U has some sort of special connection with Jim Rutherford, but in the end, the past season just seemed to be a waste that didn't really accomplish anything. It wasn't a rebuilding year. They didn't win. His track record as a GM is horrendous.

Ray Shero is largely responsible for the problems on the roster and in the farm system and with the salary cap, but what has Rutherford done to fix it?

When he took over nearly one year ago you could fairly say the Penguins had the following needs/holes:

-- They needed to get younger and faster
-- They needed at least one or two more top-six forwards
-- They needed to improve their depth
-- They needed another top-four defenseman
-- They needed to find out what they had in guys like Beau Bennett and Simon Despres

One year later, going into this offseason, I think you can fairly say the Penguins have the following needs/holes:

-- They need to get younger and faster
-- They need at least one or two more top-six forwards
-- They need to improve their depth
-- They need another top-four defenseman
-- They need to find out what they have in Beau Bennett, while Simon Despres turned into Ben Lovejoy

The free agent market is brutal for forwards, though there are some intriguing options on defense, but they will likely be incredibly expensive (Guys like Jeff Petry and Cody Franson are probably looking at $5-6 million a year on the open market). They're going to have to explore the trade market for forwards but they have almost nothing of value to trade. Maatta and Pouliot would be the guys that bring the most value but they need them to play major roles (plus they're too valuable to trade anyway) and after that, the likes of Harrington and Dumoulin aren't going to bring any sort of a return except the forward equivalent of them.

Hopefully they commit to playing Kapanen and Sundqvist. They may not have any other choice.

I wonder how much time Rutheford is going to waste this summer trying to figure out how to get Jordan Staal back. I mean I'm in the camp that Staal @ 6M is better than Sutter @3.3M, but there are much bigger issues with the team.
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#37 User is offline   DoctorJohnnyFever 

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 05:51 PM

Carey Price, Alex Ovechkin and John Tavares the MVP finalists.

No way Price didn't win.
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#38 User is offline   Trey_Beamon 

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 05:53 PM

View PostDoctorJohnnyFever, on 29 April 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

Carey Price, Alex Ovechkin and John Tavares the MVP finalists.

No way Price didn't win.


Have your French fry MVP finalists changed?
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#39 User is offline   DoctorJohnnyFever 

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 05:53 PM

View PostTrey_Beamon, on 29 April 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

Have your French fry MVP finalists changed?


No way. Curly forever. Shoestring never.
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#40 User is offline   oblongatta 

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 12:06 PM

View PostDoctorJohnnyFever, on 28 April 2015 - 08:56 PM, said:

Wanted to put this in the right thread.

I'm honestly quite surprised that Jim Rutherford seems to be coming back. I was pretty convinced that he was either A) going to be fired, or B) Retire/resign.

Now that neither is happening, I still wonder if that's a good thing. I know U has some sort of special connection with Jim Rutherford, but in the end, the past season just seemed to be a waste that didn't really accomplish anything. It wasn't a rebuilding year. They didn't win. His track record as a GM is horrendous.

Ray Shero is largely responsible for the problems on the roster and in the farm system and with the salary cap, but what has Rutherford done to fix it?

When he took over nearly one year ago you could fairly say the Penguins had the following needs/holes:

-- They needed to get younger and faster
-- They needed at least one or two more top-six forwards
-- They needed to improve their depth
-- They needed another top-four defenseman
-- They needed to find out what they had in guys like Beau Bennett and Simon Despres

One year later, going into this offseason, I think you can fairly say the Penguins have the following needs/holes:

-- They need to get younger and faster
-- They need at least one or two more top-six forwards
-- They need to improve their depth
-- They need another top-four defenseman
-- They need to find out what they have in Beau Bennett, while Simon Despres turned into Ben Lovejoy

The free agent market is brutal for forwards, though there are some intriguing options on defense, but they will likely be incredibly expensive (Guys like Jeff Petry and Cody Franson are probably looking at $5-6 million a year on the open market). They're going to have to explore the trade market for forwards but they have almost nothing of value to trade. Maatta and Pouliot would be the guys that bring the most value but they need them to play major roles (plus they're too valuable to trade anyway) and after that, the likes of Harrington and Dumoulin aren't going to bring any sort of a return except the forward equivalent of them.

Hopefully they commit to playing Kapanen and Sundqvist. They may not have any other choice.


I've been thinking about this. Just because they have similar holes does not mean that Rutherford didn't address these issues in the past year. Let's go through them:

When he took over nearly one year ago you could fairly say the Penguins had the following needs/holes:

-- They needed to get younger and faster

Well he drafted Kapanin. They decided to go in a different direction with the forwards by going for net crashing defensive minded players. But in the end, the younger and faster is going to come from Sundqvist and Kapanen (and maybe a Scott Wilson and Bryan Rust as bottom 6 guys)

-- They needed at least one or two more top-six forwards

The added both Hornqvist and Perron. Obviously adding Hornqvist was offset by the loss of Neal but Perron is at least one added top six. What hurt was Perron sucked. Then the sharp decline of Kunitz and injury of Dupuis (who filled a top 6 role even if he shouldn't have) left them short.

-- They needed to improve their depth

This they definitely did. Winnick, Comeau, Spaling (even if over paid), Downie, and LaPierre (who sucked until the playoffs). Is a strong set of bottom 6 forwards.

-- They needed another top-four defenseman

They added Ehrhof. A top six of Letang, Martin, Ehrhof, Maatta, Pouloit and Despres would have been solid. Of course, injuries derailed 4 of them and a stupid trade cost the 5th leaving only Martin and the Scuderi dead weight.

-- They needed to find out what they had in guys like Beau Bennett and Simon Despres

Well they found out about Despres and then for some unknown or illogical reason traded him. If they found out anything about Bennett it was that he was still injury prone and over matched when he was on the ice. Maybe there's still hope, but maybe the actually did find out what they had in him.



In the end, they did in fact address many of those issues. They did so on a short term basis to try and win now (with the exception of Kapanen and Perron). The cost of that is they have to address similar holes this off season. Personally, I like the choice of trying to address the holes in a short term basis to try and win now. The failure was that they didn't win now. A huge portion of the blame has to go to injuries. The Despres move was the second biggest mistake (as was not making Bennett eligible to be demoted for a dman). The injuries simply derailed any hope of advancing.

So they have moves to make again, but are they any worse off? Because many of the guys they picked up were one year contracts, they can still make moves. They have Perron coming back. They have a couple potential top 6 guys in the minors. They have Maatta and an experienced Pouliot coming back. Only the trade of Despres (seriously, what the fuck was that moron thinking?) hurt them in the long term. As was saddling the defense with Scuderi and Lovejoy.

On offense, the only limitation are qestionable salary space being eaten up by Spaling, Kunitz, Sutter and Dupuis. I'd like to see them jettison Kunitz but you should be able to work around the Spaling, Sutter, and Dupuis contracts. They shouldn't be team killing and they are useful players.
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