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#41 User is offline   GoBucs21 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 07:48 AM

View PostWinterset Resurrection, on 05 June 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:

Sure. Just like every single domestic intelligence agency concluded that there were WMD in Iraq.

What you guys aren't understanding is that oftentimes in politics, the desired outcome is arrived at first, and then everyone else bends to make it a reality.

One, he wrote foreign, not domestic. Two, not everyone did. Army Intel did not believe the WMD claim.

Your second statement is correct. It's the basis of your adoration of Trump. You've admitted that he may be a pedophile but you still support him.
"It's probably true. Trump probably did it, because people in power tend to think they can do whatever they want, whenever they want, and usually get away with it."
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Winter's response to my post that Trump may have raped a teenage girl.

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#42 User is offline   jcharding 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 08:27 AM

View PostJermaine Allensworth, on 05 June 2017 - 07:21 AM, said:

Gorsuch was appointed by Trump, he's not going to turn his back on him 2 months later. He's a lackey with no integrity that's there to do Trump's bidding.


Federal judges don't work that way.

The odds of this being a 9-0 utter beatdown significantly exceed Trump winning.

Kennedy will vote against, because Kennedy is particularly sensitive to correcting Court wrongs.

Roberts will do the same, and Roberts also carries the responsibility of overseeing the Courts role with respect to the Exec and Legis branches. Roberts was already very sensitive to this in the Obamacare decision.

So that's probably a minimum of 6-3 already. Given that, Roberts will put on a full court press to get a unanimous court. Gorsusch will be motivated to show he isn't a Trump lackey, and again he's a federal judge - not a politician. 75%+ chance Gorsusch votes with the majority.

There is probably better than a 50-50 chance Clarence Thomas votes against as well. He's been warming up a bit lately. He's actually asked questions a bit, and it has finally occurred to him that maybe he doesn't need to just blindly follow Scalia.

I've got no read on Alito on this one, but Trump has so trampled the separation of powers that I suspect that he would be willing to join the statement decision.

There is currently no rational way Trump wins, which is why Trump made the tweets. He wants to destabilize the Courts even more. Because he is at heart a dictator.
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#43 User is offline   jcharding 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 08:41 AM

Since I'm in a particularly anti-Trump mood this morning, here is more: Trump independently deleted the US-supports-NATO-Article-5 reference in his speech last week, throwing all of Mathis, Tillerson and McMaster under the bus after they spent weeks (months?) trying to ensure it was in the speech. And it was, until at the last moment Trump (perhaps listening to Bannon) took it upon himself to delete it anyway. http://www.politico....ity-team-215227

Personally, I thought Trump made good appointments in all of Mathis, McMaster and Tillerson. Tillerson was out of the box a bit, but still a reasonable decision. Mathis was very good, the only objection being he hadn't waited long enough since his active duty time. Yet Trump is actively ignoring and blowing off all three.

We should start a pool to see who quits first. I'd be surprised if all three were still there August 1st.
I am nevertheless too sensible of my defects not to think it probable that I may have committed many posting errors.

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#44 User is offline   tobaccoroad 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 08:59 AM

View Postjcharding, on 05 June 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

Since I'm in a particularly anti-Trump mood this morning, here is more: Trump independently deleted the US-supports-NATO-Article-5 reference in his speech last week, throwing all of Mathis, Tillerson and McMaster under the bus after they spent weeks (months?) trying to ensure it was in the speech. And it was, until at the last moment Trump (perhaps listening to Bannon) took it upon himself to delete it anyway. http://www.politico....ity-team-215227

Personally, I thought Trump made good appointments in all of Mathis, McMaster and Tillerson. Tillerson was out of the box a bit, but still a reasonable decision. Mathis was very good, the only objection being he hadn't waited long enough since his active duty time. Yet Trump is actively ignoring and blowing off all three.

We should start a pool to see who quits first. I'd be surprised if all three were still there August 1st.


I haven't really been following along with regard to this front of the Trump idiocracy. And I am FFFAAARRRR from a friend of NATO. That being said, if it is true that those three assuered our allies in NATO that Trump would include that in the speech, either they were pushing for it to be and hoping that he would (least likely scenario) or they were told that he would. If that is the case, and he deleted it himself, all three of them should resign together. That is flat out insane for him to do. Again, I dislike the concept of NATO in its totality. But if Trump sent his people out to say that something would be included that he then removed from the speech, those three should just throw up their hands simultaneously and quit. How can anyone work under conditions like that? They wouldn't have any credibility to do their jobs.

Just insane.

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#45 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 09:35 AM

That's good. There are also at least 2 books of idiotic things George W. Bush said during his 2 terms.

It is frightening that that man was in charge of anything. I would estimate his IQ to have only been about 70.
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#46 User is offline   Grey 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 10:01 AM

Off Topic, man, Kate Bolduan. Jesus H Christ. Like a young Grace kelly.
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#47 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 10:05 AM

I like this thread. I like this thread a lot.
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#48 User is offline   DoctorJohnnyFever 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 10:14 AM

Just the President of the United States attacking the mayor of a city who just experienced a terrorist attack.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his "no reason to be alarmed" statement. MSM is working hard to sell it!


Good times. Good times.
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#49 User is offline   tobaccoroad 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 10:15 AM

View PostGrey, on 05 June 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

Off Topic, man, Kate Bolduan. Jesus H Christ. Like a young Grace kelly.


Hardly.

Posted Image

Grace Kelly circa 1954 was as close to human perfection as one can get.

Shoes
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#50 User is offline   jcharding 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 10:43 AM

View PostDoctorJohnnyFever, on 05 June 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

Just the President of the United States attacking the mayor of a city who just experienced a terrorist attack.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his "no reason to be alarmed" statement. MSM is working hard to sell it!


Good times. Good times.


The English and Israelis are just going to cut us off and wait 4 years. Probably the Germans too.
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#51 User is offline   jcharding 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 10:59 AM

Trump visits Mideast. Praises Saudi Arabia. Shortly thereafter Saudi Arabia, Egypt and others cut off Qatar (home of a major US military base) - effectively isolating it. The countries released coordinated statements, saying that they would "cut air, sea and land links with Qatar". They also pulled all diplomatic staff. This effectively pushes Qatar closer to Iran politically, economically (Qatar shares an oil field with Iran), and logistically (because Iran is the only remaining friendly neighboring country).


http://www.foxnews.c...with-qatar.html

https://www.washingt...omepage%2Fstory

Effective Trump diplomacy at its finest.
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#52 User is offline   ECBucs 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 11:54 AM

View Postjcharding, on 05 June 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

Trump visits Mideast. Praises Saudi Arabia. Shortly thereafter Saudi Arabia, Egypt and others cut off Qatar (home of a major US military base) - effectively isolating it. The countries released coordinated statements, saying that they would "cut air, sea and land links with Qatar". They also pulled all diplomatic staff. This effectively pushes Qatar closer to Iran politically, economically (Qatar shares an oil field with Iran), and logistically (because Iran is the only remaining friendly neighboring country).


http://www.foxnews.c...with-qatar.html

https://www.washingt...omepage%2Fstory

Effective Trump diplomacy at its finest.


Trump thinks this is a positive development.
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#53 User is offline   GoBucs21 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 12:37 PM

View Postjcharding, on 05 June 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

Since I'm in a particularly anti-Trump mood this morning, here is more: Trump independently deleted the US-supports-NATO-Article-5 reference in his speech last week, throwing all of Mathis, Tillerson and McMaster under the bus after they spent weeks (months?) trying to ensure it was in the speech. And it was, until at the last moment Trump (perhaps listening to Bannon) took it upon himself to delete it anyway. http://www.politico....ity-team-215227

Personally, I thought Trump made good appointments in all of Mathis, McMaster and Tillerson. Tillerson was out of the box a bit, but still a reasonable decision. Mathis was very good, the only objection being he hadn't waited long enough since his active duty time. Yet Trump is actively ignoring and blowing off all three.

We should start a pool to see who quits first. I'd be surprised if all three were still there August 1st.

My guess, in order:
Mattis
McMaster
Tillerson

I have to admit, McMaster has been a substantial disappointment. He has essentially pissed away a lifetime of work to achieve the level of respectability he has earned. He is becoming exactly what he wrote about in his book "Dereliction of Duty".
"It's probably true. Trump probably did it, because people in power tend to think they can do whatever they want, whenever they want, and usually get away with it."
17 April 2017
Winter's response to my post that Trump may have raped a teenage girl.

Moral courage is a more rare commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence.
Robert F. Kennedy

Day of commemoration to honor the Victims of Bowling Green, April 1, 2017.
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#54 User is offline   GoBucs21 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 12:42 PM

View Postjcharding, on 05 June 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

The English and Israelis are just going to cut us off and wait 4 years. Probably the Germans too.

He is isolating us one ally at a time. In doing so, he makes us much more vulnerable to the real national threats, Russia and China. They do not want to be allies. They want to dominate us. Donald Trump is making it that much easier for us to be dominated by them.

In doing so, he makes us more vulnerable to terrorism. Who is going to support us, when Trump finally decides that he needs human lives on the ground in the Middle East to save his Presidency? Who is going to continue to support us in Afghanistan? No one. Terrorists will focus on us because we will have no support from our soon to be former allies.

Donald Trump is the single largest threat to our national security.
"It's probably true. Trump probably did it, because people in power tend to think they can do whatever they want, whenever they want, and usually get away with it."
17 April 2017
Winter's response to my post that Trump may have raped a teenage girl.

Moral courage is a more rare commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence.
Robert F. Kennedy

Day of commemoration to honor the Victims of Bowling Green, April 1, 2017.
2

#55 User is offline   jcharding 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 01:35 PM

I saw an article a week or so ago which wondered if McMaster et al may be violating the military code of conduct by continuing to stand with and try to publicly defend various Trump positions. I then privately wondered if attorneys representing Trump may be similarly be doing the same with legal ethical codes. With respect to the Muslim/Travel Ban, Trump's most recent tweets essentially latch onto the idea that the London attackers were Muslim and that therefore the US needs Trump's original travel ban (with the Christian exception). At that time (heck even now) it wasn't even clear if the attackers were Muslim, or even from Trump's list of bad Muslim countries, but that certainly didn't stop The Donald.

I don't know that continuing to defend Trump's travel ban as having nothing to do with religion has yet reached the point where the DOJ attorneys need to quit, refuse to take certain positions, or risk disbarment, but its getting close. Yes, other attorneys I've spoken to agree. And as a result I'm guessing that McMaster and other military members of Trump's administration are under similar ethical pressures.

Edit. I see some legal blogs are already wondering the same, although they were considering it in an outside the courtroom context. https://takecareblog...tration-lawyers
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#56 User is offline   Jermaine Allensworth 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 01:38 PM

View Postjcharding, on 05 June 2017 - 08:27 AM, said:

Federal judges don't work that way.


Sorry pal, but you're not living in the real world. Scalia and Thomas did nothing but tow the conservative line, even will it was blantantly obvious that they were wrong. The Supreme Court is no less fucked up the Executive and Legislative branches of government. They're all in it for themselves and their friends.
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#57 User is offline   Grey 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 01:44 PM

View Posttobaccoroad, on 05 June 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

Hardly.

Posted Image

Grace Kelly circa 1954 was as close to human perfection as one can get.

Shoes


Well...you have a point.

Look at that too long and you lose your breath. Just unreal.
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#58 User is offline   jcharding 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 01:44 PM

View PostJermaine Allensworth, on 05 June 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

Sorry pal, but you're not living in the real world. Scalia and Thomas did nothing but tow the conservative line, even will it was blantantly obvious that they were wrong. The Supreme Court is no less fucked up the Executive and Legislative branches of government. They're all in it for themselves and their friends.


Their friends are other judges - you know the ones Trump has been stringing up and publicly flaying. And they will defend those judges and the institutions. No differently then the FBI, CIA and the media all quietly, or loudly, reacting to Trump stringing them up and publicly flaying. All have essentially declared war on Trump. So will the SUpreme Court, the Court will just do it more eloquently. And in this case it will coincide with a few other ideas (religious discrimination and/or correcting past bad decisions for example) that give the court more cover.
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#59 User is offline   tobaccoroad 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 01:51 PM

View PostJermaine Allensworth, on 05 June 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

Sorry pal, but you're not living in the real world. Scalia and Thomas did nothing but tow the conservative line, even will it was blantantly obvious that they were wrong. The Supreme Court is no less fucked up the Executive and Legislative branches of government. They're all in it for themselves and their friends.


Except when Scalia took the more progressive stance on the following issues:

flag burning
DNA searches
violent video games
the confrontation clause (defendant's rights)
double jeopardy clause
the rule of lenity
trial by jury in civil cases
unreasonable search and seizure
trial by jury in all procedings (he argued a judge is part of the state and trial by jury was to protect citizens from the state)
champion of the first amendment

But sure. He did nothing but "toe the conservative line".

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#60 User is offline   Grey 

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 01:54 PM

"Unreasonable Search and Seizure", laugh my ass off.

ALL of them are unreasonable.
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