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#161 Guest_sloshyj_*

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 08:35 AM

QUOTE (ecbenito @ Jun 30 2009, 09:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Snell has talent, no question, but he's a fucking whiny pussy douchebag that should be kicked in the flap of skin where a man's balls usually reside. Fuck him, send his ass packing.

The allusions to Oliver Perez are well founded. He was a headcase, too. He had a ton of talent. We sold low on him... but the Pirates gave him a lot of time to turn it around. It's not as if Perez was demoted 5 starts in to a downward spiral.

Snell has also been given a long length of rope; roughly equal time to Oliver Perez. People screamed and threw feces when we cut ties with Perez, especially as he went to the Mutts and was "effective" initially for him. Whereas we would have tried to trade him at his max value, I think, the Mutts gave him $10 mil a year to pitch in AAA.

Snell could bounce back, sure, but Perez's spiral was demoralizing, both to the fans and to the team. Pitchers aren't some share of stock that you ride out in hopes of garnering some return. They lead the team from the mound. And when that pitcher is talking about his catcher's deficiencies, and how the team didn't pick him up, he's a p.o.s.

I'm with EC. If we were absolutely pitching starved, I'd probably give him more time. Though he has the sort of upside I think few other other options have - maybe Gorz - I'm not content to give him the time to show that. Not after his comments. Not after his actions.

Send his ass packing.
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#162 User is offline   Pjoma 

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 08:38 AM

QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Jun 30 2009, 08:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're not the only one.


Count me in the minority then too.

"Huntington is doing exactly what he was hired to do, and that the fans and media in Pittsburgh cant quite grasp this, that they still hold the 2008-09 trades against him, is an indictment of their sensibilities." Joe Sheehan 6/6/10
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#163 Guest_sloshyj_*

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 09:49 AM

QUOTE (LonghornBuc @ Jun 30 2009, 10:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I will agree with the sloshy who thinks the Bucs are Disneylike...


I don't understand...


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#164 User is offline   SyrBucco 

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 09:55 AM

QUOTE (Pjoma @ Jun 30 2009, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Count me in the minority then too.

Yup, me too. We need to be patient, because there are real costs associated with a lack of patience. If Snell continues to pitch extremely well for Indy, someone will offer us a worthwhile return, high salary and all.

Or he may just end up back in our rotation.

Folks say "put him in the bullpen". No way do I see the mental toughness I associate with a closer, and he makes too much money for a setup guy.
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#165 User is offline   donwengert4life 

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 10:13 AM

If the Pirates were deep in pitching talent, I'd say you could get rid of him. But the Pirates hardly fit that description. So I think releasing him or trading him for a backup catcher probably is not a wise decision.

I hate Snell, don't get me wrong. He's a giant, flaming pussy. And I think a demotion to AAA was warranted. But he has talent. I'd like to see him get another chance at starting in Pittsburgh before the organization gives up on him.

I'm still not sure about NH. He's done some things I like, some things I don't like. One of the things I don't like is his apparent proclivity for letting his negative personal feelings toward players get in the way of his judgment. NH gave away Jose Bautista essentially because he didn't like him as a person. And the same thing appears to be happening with Snell. Now granted, Snell has not performed well, but NH's public comments suggest Snell's personality has affected his standing within the organization. I think a GM needs to rise above that kind of pettiness.
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#166 Guest_sloshyj_*

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 10:19 AM

QUOTE (donwengert4life @ Jun 30 2009, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
NH gave away Jose Bautista essentially because he didn't like him as a person.

This is the first time I've heard this. Any linkage to back this up?
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#167 User is offline   mvk112 

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 10:30 AM

QUOTE (sloshyj @ Jun 30 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is the first time I've heard this. Any linkage to back this up?


Bautista was bitching about being a bench player, despite playing like one the entire season, and not improving on his performance at all since his rookie year. Neal traded him to continue his purge of players that underperform and bitch, just like Jose Castillo.

He seems to be drawing alot more walks this year, but his batting average is still at around his career norms and his power is significantly down. I really don't think he is a big loss at all, even after his very godd effort these past two games raised his OPS by 26 points.
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#168 User is offline   donwengert4life 

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 10:37 AM

Dejan hinted at it last season although I can't find the link. And NH wasn't as direct about it as he was with Snell. It was more of a reading-between-the-lines thing.

Once they picked up Andy LaRoche they benched Bautista. Bautista commented to the press that he was upset and that he saw himself as a starting player. Dejan suggested that Russell and NH interpreted that as Bautista being a complainer. They gave him three starts over the next three weeks, then shipped him to AAA, then traded him.

That just seems self-defeating to get annoyed with a player, reduce his value by sending him to AAA, then trade him. Especially when Bautista is relatively cheap as utility men go, and statistically he's a very solid person to have in that role.

I don't think he underperformed. His OPS+ numbers have been pretty consistent through the years. He just is what he is. Not a starter. But still a useful guy.
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#169 Guest_sloshyj_*

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 10:44 AM

QUOTE (donwengert4life @ Jun 30 2009, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Once they picked up Andy LaRoche they benched Bautista. Bautista commented to the press that he was upset and that he saw himself as a starting player. Dejan suggested that Russell and NH interpreted that as Bautista being a complainer. They gave him three starts over the next three weeks, then shipped him to AAA, then traded him.

Commenting to the press seems to be the big no-no these days. On July 30, Bautista had a .745 OPS (.326/.419). If he's going to complain to the press without the on-the-field numbers to back it up, the new "accountability" thing kicks in.

I suppose NH and JR feel that the loss in potential return-in-trade is worth it to send a message.

It's an interesting change in philosophy.
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#170 User is offline   donwengert4life 

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 11:12 AM

QUOTE (sloshyj @ Jun 30 2009, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Commenting to the press seems to be the big no-no these days. On July 30, Bautista had a .745 OPS (.326/.419). If he's going to complain to the press without the on-the-field numbers to back it up, the new "accountability" thing kicks in.

I suppose NH and JR feel that the loss in potential return-in-trade is worth it to send a message.

It's an interesting change in philosophy.


Yeah, it is. In Snell's case, I think a smackdown was more warranted because his comments were ongoing and unprofessional. But with Bautista....I mean, what's he supposed to say? "Yeah, I'm delighted they benched me. I'm not really good enough to start." It seemed like a pretty innocuous comment on his part.

Oh, well....water under the bridge.
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#171 User is offline   mvk112 

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 11:13 AM

QUOTE (donwengert4life @ Jun 30 2009, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, it is. In Snell's case, I think a smackdown was more warranted because his comments were ongoing and unprofessional. But with Bautista....I mean, what's he supposed to say? "Yeah, I'm delighted they benched me. I'm not really good enough to start." It seemed like a pretty innocuous comment on his part.

Oh, well....water under the bridge.



Maybe he can say that he's going to work hard and make the most of the playing time that he gets.
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#172 User is offline   Penguin 

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 04:05 PM

QUOTE (jestor92 @ Jun 27 2009, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One more thing I'd like to point out. Most times you don't hear about trading players until after the fact that they are either traded or fell apart. It wouldn't surprise me if this trade fell apart and someone within Washington's front office let word leak out that they were discussing this trade. I'd say Pittsburgh's front office, but you would hear the "rumor" from Dejan or Perrotto.

I'm guessing this trade discussion was made and that the reason we're hearing about it is because the fact that it fell apart.

Oops....
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