Pittsburgh Pirates: Defending Tony Sanchez - Pittsburgh Pirates

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Defending Tony Sanchez

#41 User is offline   SyrBucco 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 09:53 AM

I'm going to incur the wrath of Longhorn and continue to avoid making a final judgement on the 09 draft until I've seen how many of these signability picks actually get signed.

Before the draft I was on record as saying that:
1. I didn't want us to sign Sanchez. I wanted Crow or Green.
2. But I thought we would sign Sanchez.

There can be no question that Sanchez was an overdraft, but I'm willing to entertain the thought that NH was doing the NFL draft equivalent of "trading down" on a draft pick to save some money for the signability guys. He didn't do it in '08, so I don't think we can state unequivocally that the Bucs are still just cheapskates re: the draft. I will state an opinion after the "haul" is clear. I will not wait 4.5 years to make a judgement, but I might wait 4.5 weeks. That's just how I roll.

July 2 is a week away. I don't belive any of the bullshit about the Latin picks being a separate budget, blah, blah. Sure, it may start out that way, but the bottom line is the bottom line. Those things just get said for posturing. After all, you can't say to Sano's agent, hey, we went cheap on the draft 'cuz we're building a war chest to sign your guy 'cuz we're really hot on him. That would just be stupid, and NH is not stupid, regardless of the prevailing opinion here.

Funny that there are a lot of baseball experts who do not share the prevailing opinion here, that the draft was a lost opportunity, that NH fucked it up. The prevailing opinions elsewhere maintain that NH tried something different, that it just might work, that only after signing or not signing these young arms, should we make a judgement.

As muich as I respect the minds of those who are disappointed in the '09 draft, I will not join their side yet. Some of us are just slow to make up their minds. Maybe it's because I'm old and I've seen the folly of quick judgement too often. So consider that NH does have a strategy and it might work. Check back with me later this summer.
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#42 User is offline   jeffr92 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:02 AM

QUOTE (SyrBucco @ Jun 26 2009, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm going to incur the wrath of Longhorn and continue to avoid making a final judgement on the 09 draft until I've seen how many of these signability picks actually get signed.

Before the draft I was on record as saying that:
1. I didn't want us to sign Sanchez. I wanted Crow or Green.
2. But I thought we would sign Sanchez.

There can be no question that Sanchez was an overdraft, but I'm willing to entertain the thought that NH was doing the NFL draft equivalent of "trading down" on a draft pick to save some money for the signability guys.

He didn't save any money; Neal gave Tony Sanchez slot money (at least $1M more than he was worth).
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#43 User is offline   GoBucs21 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:06 AM

QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Jun 26 2009, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He didn't save any money; Neal gave Tony Sanchez slot money (at least $1M more than he was worth).

Yep.

And another thing is that everyone is pretending the players drafted later were the players the team was waiting on. It could well be that the players the Pirates wanted were gone and they took what was left.

Again, passing on the best player early, in the hope of getting something better later, is just bad business. Take the best player available. If he can't be signed to reasonable amount (an amount that has been budgeted), then let him walk. You get the comp pick and have that much more money to sign the higher risk guys later.
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#44 User is offline   jeffr92 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:28 AM

QUOTE (LonghornBuc @ Jun 26 2009, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No wrath here, you admitted the draft of Fatchez was an overdraft. I agree, it was a bad baseball decision.

I agree you can argue it was a money decision, or a money/baseball decision. It may be that it was just being cheap, based on what happens by 8/17. Or it could be that we end up with a decent haul, which makes it a money/baseball strategy. But the bottom line is, there were top talents available with our #1 pick, and we wont ever make that up no matter who gets signed from any other round. No one else we picked was a first round talent, let alone a #4 talent.


I agree with jeffr and GB, but with a qualifier. Yes, we paid Fatchez three times his worth. Thats the easy analysis of his talent as #30, and the slot money of #4. But Opies supposed money/baseball strategy is that he would have had to pay 4-5 mil for a #4 talent, so he saved the couple mil overslot and is going to use it on the overdrafts later on.



I still have yet to see a reason why he continued this ridiculous strategy throughout rounds 2-5. Paying these overdrafts all this extra money is just ridiculous. But I guess we have now devolved into quantity over quality in the draft as well as trades.

I don't see how that can be true. Sure, he'd have had to overpay to sign the Matzek's, Turner's and Green's of the draft, but there were plenty of slot options that made more sense. Let's take a look at who already has signed:

Drew Storen (10) - $1.6M
AJ Pollock (17) - $1.4M
Randal Grichuk (24) - $1.242M
Eric Arnett (26) - $1.197M
Tim Wheeler (32) - $900K

Of that list, I'd rather have taken Arnett, Wheeler or Pollock, but I think there were others who have yet to sign that will sign for less than what Tony got. Borchering, Myers, Leake and Jenkins come to mind as guys who I'd have liked and would have been just as affordable.
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#45 User is offline   jeffr92 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:28 AM

prolly
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#46 User is offline   jeffr92 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:28 AM

gobucs.
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#47 User is offline   Martini 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:31 AM

velo.


Get it?
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#48 Guest_sloshyj_*

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:32 AM

QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Jun 26 2009, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He didn't save any money; Neal gave Tony Sanchez slot money (at least $1M more than he was worth).

Perhaps NH knew that some other team intended to draft Sanchez lower in the 1st round, and that if he didn't move on him with the 4th pick, he wouldn't be around then.

I bet you never thought of that, did you?

BOOM! Science.
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#49 User is offline   SyrBucco 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:35 AM

QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Jun 26 2009, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He didn't save any money; Neal gave Tony Sanchez slot money (at least $1M more than he was worth).

Paying Sanchez slot is a savings vs. paying someone over slot. I'm guessing that the higher-rated guys we were interested in were all asking for above-slot money.

There's just no doubt that Mgmt. liked Sanchez a lot, and didn't mind paying him the $$$.

Might have been PR-related, too, as a juxtoposition to last year's struggles with Pedro.
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#50 User is offline   jeffr92 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:35 AM

QUOTE (sloshyj @ Jun 26 2009, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Perhaps NH knew that some other team intended to draft Sanchez lower in the 1st round, and that if he didn't move on him with the 4th pick, he wouldn't be around then.

I bet you never thought of that, did you?

BOOM! Science.

Indeed, that is what I "failed to realize"
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#51 Guest_defdog_*

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:38 AM

QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Jun 26 2009, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He didn't save any money; Neal gave Tony Sanchez slot money (at least $1M more than he was worth).


The HS pitchers want $7.25M.

So we did save some money.

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#52 Guest_sloshyj_*

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:43 AM

QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Jun 26 2009, 11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Indeed, that is what I "failed to realize"

Ohhhh hooo ohhhh! I got you! I'm bookmarking this and quoting it, so you can't go back and change it!!!!!!!

Oooooooh ohhhhh hooooo ohhhhhh ahhhhh!
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#53 User is offline   Jeff King 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:47 AM

Tony Sanchez wears Michael Jackson pajamas.
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#54 User is offline   Martini 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 11:01 AM

QUOTE (Jeff King @ Jun 26 2009, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tony Sanchez wears Michael Jackson pjomas.

Get it right. Dumbass.


Get it?
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#55 Guest_sloshyj_*

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 11:04 AM

QUOTE (Martini @ Jun 26 2009, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tony Sanchez wears Michael Jackson pjomas.

Get it right. Dumbass.

HAhahahaha.
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#56 User is offline   tobaccoroad 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 11:09 AM

Hearing how the Nutbags are able to "save some money" tickles my undergutchies in a way that only the King of Pop could ever truly understand.

By that I mean I'd rather take the business end of a harpoon up my Defdog ejector.

Shoes
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#57 User is offline   mzimmerman81 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 11:14 AM

QUOTE (defdog @ Jun 26 2009, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The HS pitchers want $7.25M.

So we did save some money.



No you giant fucking retard fuckface, we overpaid for a player who isn't as good as the bonus he is getting. We didn't save shit, we drafted a lower regarded player for more money than he should have gotten.

We paid 4th pick slot money for the 25-30th best player.
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#58 User is offline   GoBucs21 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 11:14 AM

QUOTE (defdog @ Jun 26 2009, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The HS pitchers want $7.25M.

So we did save some money.

Technically, that is a cost avoidance.
People say I am ruthless. I am not ruthless. And if I find the man who is calling me ruthless, I shall destroy him.
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Moral courage is a more rare commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence.
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Day of commemoration to honor the Victims of Bowling Green, April 1, 2017.
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#59 User is offline   mzimmerman81 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 11:16 AM

QUOTE (GoBucs21 @ Jun 26 2009, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Technically, that is a cost avoidance.



Defdog has a hard time spelling avoidance let alone acquiring the meaning of it.
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#60 User is offline   GoBucs21 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 11:17 AM

QUOTE (mzimmerman81 @ Jun 26 2009, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No you giant fucking retard fuckface, we overpaid for a player who isn't as good as the bonus he is getting. We didn't save shit, we drafted a lower regarded player for more money than he should have gotten.

We paid 4th pick slot money for the 25-30th best player.

You are missing the point. We saved virtual dollars, that were never spent. We don't discuss actual dollars, the amount spent on a player who could have been signed for significantly less.
People say I am ruthless. I am not ruthless. And if I find the man who is calling me ruthless, I shall destroy him.
Robert F. Kennedy

Moral courage is a more rare commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence.
Robert F. Kennedy

Day of commemoration to honor the Victims of Bowling Green, April 1, 2017.
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