Pittsburgh Pirates: Steeler's Offseason Thread - Pittsburgh Pirates

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Steeler's Offseason Thread Rate Topic: -----

#1041 User is offline   PSU4Lyfe 

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 09:40 PM

 jcharding, on 25 May 2017 - 09:30 PM, said:

Sorry, but for me the so called drama king angle is far less of an issue than a man twice suspended for weed and one strike away from being banned for a year.


Being criticized by a guy that was suspended for raping a girl in a bar.

Either way, we see it differently. He doesn't "owe" his teammates anything. He actually doesn't "owe" the Steelers anything, who decided it wasn't to their benefit to sign him to a multi year deal that would've incentivized him to show up to a voluntary workout. He's an employee and they're his employer. A collective bargaining agreement between the league and the union made these workouts optional. He excercised his option to not show up. Ben crying to the media is what's making it a story. Ben isn't one to pass up the chance to hop in to the spotlight. Watching a workout isn't going to make him better prepared for a season 4 months away.
Disclaimer: This post in no way supports nor defends the signing of Rod Barajas.
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#1042 User is offline   jcharding 

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 09:44 PM

Again I would agree with you if it was anyone other than Bell or Bryant.

But as you said, we clearly have different viewpoints.
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#1043 User is offline   oblongatta 

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 10:10 AM

View PostPSU4Lyfe, on 25 May 2017 - 09:40 PM, said:

Being criticized by a guy that was suspended for raping a girl in a bar.

Either way, we see it differently. He doesn't "owe" his teammates anything. He actually doesn't "owe" the Steelers anything, who decided it wasn't to their benefit to sign him to a multi year deal that would've incentivized him to show up to a voluntary workout. He's an employee and they're his employer. A collective bargaining agreement between the league and the union made these workouts optional. He excercised his option to not show up. Ben crying to the media is what's making it a story. Ben isn't one to pass up the chance to hop in to the spotlight. Watching a workout isn't going to make him better prepared for a season 4 months away.


This right here is the critical aspect. Ben just as easily could have said nothing. Or he could have called or txted Bell. And said hey, maybe it'd be good if you were here. I'm not sure anyone would have noticed or said anything about it if it wasn't for Ben. There probably would have been a single sentence in the paper saying "Le'Veon Bell was not at the OTAs as he recovers from surgery."

Instead Ben decided to take this to the media. He's the one who created something of a distraction.
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#1044 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 10:31 AM

I'm not sure if it's Ben's callout creating the distraction, or the continual behavior of some of the players on the team doing so.

I feel that Mike Tomlin is not much of a disciplinarian, and this may have been Ben venting frustration publicly at the way matters on the team are handled. My guess is that he went public with it, because he knew if he kept it behind closed doors, nothing would ever come of it.
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#1045 User is offline   PSU4Lyfe 

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 10:32 AM

 oblongatta, on 26 May 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

This right here is the critical aspect. Ben just as easily could have said nothing. Or he could have called or txted Bell. And said hey, maybe it'd be good if you were here. I'm not sure anyone would have noticed or said anything about it if it wasn't for Ben. There probably would have been a single sentence in the paper saying "Le'Veon Bell was not at the OTAs as he recovers from surgery."

Instead Ben decided to take this to the media. He's the one who created something of a distraction.


Ben is ALWAYS gonna Ben.
Disclaimer: This post in no way supports nor defends the signing of Rod Barajas.
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#1046 User is offline   NCBuccofan 

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 12:39 PM

View Postoblongatta, on 25 May 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

umm, what does he need to apologize for again?

that he didn't attend voluntary workouts? Workouts that he wouldn't have been able to participate in? And I'm sure he didn't just no-show and not tell anyone. Besides, it could have been a way to show dissatisfaction with a franchise tag rather than a long term deal. And done in a way that was no cost at all since, again, he wouldn't have been able to do anything but stand around anyway.

As I said, I'm more concerned with this recent propensity of Ben to throw other players under the bus and his self promoting of his leadership (e.g., I was even out there throwing to rookies!). Ben in his career went from being a bit childish and self absorbed to saying all the right things, and now he's gone to this um elitist stage or whatever it is. I'd rather he go back to the saying the right things stage even if it was disingenuous.


These workouts and who skips them is always a big deal. For the media. I do not think teams really care much, since a bunch of players have skipped, only to be rewarded with big contracts. Ben knows he can have the media line up to eat the shit running out of his mouth.

Ben did not even remember if he threw any passes to Bryant. He was clearly taking it super serious.

You know who never went to these workouts? Troy Polamalu.
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#1047 User is offline   NCBuccofan 

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 01:00 PM

View Postjcharding, on 25 May 2017 - 04:50 PM, said:

If it were James Harrison, or Villanueva. No. They haven't been suspended. Bell and Martavis - yes. Contract or not. Because they hung their teammates out to dry through selfishness and stupidity, and directly or indirectly caused the team losses and potential playoff positioning. They owe their teammates an extremely high level of responsibility right now.


Sorry, but showing up to voluntary workouts without a contract would be incredibly reckless.

What exactly does the team gain from having Bell show up for OTAs? They know what he can do, and they are not really working on new things in these practices. The only good they are is to make sure players are in shape, check on injuries and get the rookies some time with the basic schemes.

He can slap asses at the mandatory minicamp.
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#1048 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 01:21 PM

View PostNCBuccofan, on 26 May 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

You know who never went to these workouts? Troy Polamalu.


You know who never got caught doing stupid things that hurt his team? Troy Polamalu.
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#1049 User is offline   NCBuccofan 

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 01:49 PM

View PostWinterset Resurrection, on 26 May 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

You know who never got caught doing stupid things that hurt his team? Troy Polamalu.


How does showing up to OTAs prevent more stupid things? Or does it erase previous stupid things? Is that why Ben showed up? How many OTAs erase a failed weed test? I imagine rape is more OTAs?
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#1050 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 04:27 PM

View PostNCBuccofan, on 26 May 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

How does showing up to OTAs prevent more stupid things? Or does it erase previous stupid things? Is that why Ben showed up? How many OTAs erase a failed weed test? I imagine rape is more OTAs?


Showing up to OTAs shows your teammates that you are committed to the team, and are taking the job seriously.

Unfortunately, that has been a problem with some of our current rostered players.
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#1051 User is offline   Gideon Clarke 

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 10:41 PM

OTAs are bullshit. Football in shorts. Stars and longtime veteran starters routinely miss them. Special teamers and roster bubble guys have been known to miss them. The good players who miss them don't seem to miss a beat when real football starts. The marginal players who miss them are released and then completely forgotten. Neither is a story. No story about OTAs, unless it involves an important player injuring himself badly, is a real story.

Of course, the clowns in the media will do everything they can to make OTAs into a real story, since the NFL has no real stories to report this time of year.
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#1052 User is offline   Gideon Clarke 

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 10:42 PM

View PostNCBuccofan, on 26 May 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

How many OTAs erase a failed weed test? I imagine rape is more OTAs?

This is the NFL, where weed gets you a longer suspension than knocking a woman unconscious.
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#1053 User is offline   jcharding 

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 11:37 PM

View PostGideon Clarke, on 26 May 2017 - 10:42 PM, said:

This is the NFL, where weed gets you a longer suspension than knocking a woman unconscious.


I have personally never agreed that any sports league should be suspending its players for standard criminal justice matters. If a player commits a crime we have a criminal justice system to dispense punishment. Only in the last few years have media whiners made those non-sports matters suddenly matters for additional league punishment.
I am nevertheless too sensible of my defects not to think it probable that I may have committed many posting errors.

I always turn to the sports pages first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures.
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#1054 User is offline   jcharding 

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 12:04 AM

As Organized Team Activities (OTAs) commenced for the Pittsburgh Steelers on Tuesday, there was Bryant, more contrite than he had seemed at any point since this “saga” began. He stood in front of reporters and, one by one, let them take their shots. He didn’t deflect, he didn’t “no-comment” his way out of anything.

He accepted that he was at fault.

He said that “trust is earned, not given.”

He understands that he let his team down.

He claims he is drug-tested two or three times each week.

He said he sees a therapist twice per week.

Golf clap, please.

It’s not that I don’t believe he is sincere. I want to believe. Badly. And to a great extent, I do believe him. And my hope for him is that he is now on the life trajectory he should have been on all along.

http://www.behindthe...otas-pittsburgh
I am nevertheless too sensible of my defects not to think it probable that I may have committed many posting errors.

I always turn to the sports pages first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures.
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#1055 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 04:41 AM

Great job Martavis!

That's at least doing everything in one's power to get back on track. I've never heard of someone seeing a therapist for weed, but maybe it's more about decision making, self esteem, etc in general.

Good to hear.
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#1056 User is offline   Midnight Moose 

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 05:36 AM

View PostGideon Clarke, on 26 May 2017 - 10:41 PM, said:

OTAs are bullshit. Football in shorts. Stars and longtime veteran starters routinely miss them. Special teamers and roster bubble guys have been known to miss them. The good players who miss them don't seem to miss a beat when real football starts. The marginal players who miss them are released and then completely forgotten. Neither is a story. No story about OTAs, unless it involves an important player injuring himself badly, is a real story.

Of course, the clowns in the media will do everything they can to make OTAs into a real story, since the NFL has no real stories to report this time of year.


For some reason, this reminded me of a few years ago, when the Pirates had voluntary mid-winter workout for pitchers and catchers. And Tony Sanchez skipped it, in order to screw together a grill he had gotten for Xmas. Someone instagramed him some video of pitchers pitching there (and catchers catching), and Sanchez tweeted, "I guess I should have gone to it."

It probably didn't matter much in the grand scheme of things, since Sanchez was a pretty flawed catcher. But that was the beginning of the end of his time with the Pirates.

Not that I'm comparing Sanchez to Le'Veon Bell in any way, shape or form. Just saying that the discussion about Bell skipping OTAs reminded about that Sanchez episode, somehow.
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#1057 User is offline   oblongatta 

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 01:33 PM

You know who should have talked to Bell? Villanueva. If he gets hurt at voluntary OTAs on that piddly contact he has, then he is screwed.
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