Pittsburgh Pirates: Steeler's Offseason Thread - Pittsburgh Pirates

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Steeler's Offseason Thread Rate Topic: -----

#521 User is offline   jcharding 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:28 PM

Over the past twenty years the Steelers have made more big free egency moves than the patriots.

The capped out thing is a myth. If they want to they can sign people, and often do sign mid level free agents. Like last year.

What I meant by the pirate apologist thing is that a year ago people (not here) where claiming the Penguins did the same thing as the Pirates, therefore the pirates were perfectly normal. Now y'all are claiming that since the Steelers are doing the same thing as the Pirates the Steelers must be wrong (hence confused apologists). This is, I would argue, nuts because the Pirates are wrong because they are idiots. The Steelers are just being their normal successful selves.
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#522 User is offline   jcharding 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:34 PM

Steelers sing Knile Davis. DJF rejoices, as i presume it marks the end of DeAngelo.
I am nevertheless too sensible of my defects not to think it probable that I may have committed many posting errors.

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#523 User is offline   Pantsless Jose Lind 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:40 PM

View Postjcharding, on 20 March 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

Over the past twenty years the Steelers have made more big free egency moves than the patriots.

The capped out thing is a myth. If they want to they can sign people, and often do sign mid level free agents. Like last year.

What I meant by the pirate apologist thing is that a year ago people (not here) where claiming the Penguins did the same thing as the Pirates, therefore the pirates were perfectly normal. Now y'all are claiming that since the Steelers are doing the same thing as the Pirates the Steelers must be wrong (hence confused apologists). This is, I would argue, nuts because the Pirates are wrong because they are idiots. The Steelers are just being their normal successful selves.


Two things are equally true.

1. The Steelers are a quality organization
2. The Steelers are not making the moves they need to make this offseason to take the next step toward winning a Super Bowl.

I won't go quite as far to say its similar to watching a 98 win team that lost in the playoffs supplement their rotation the next offseason with Ryan Vogelsong and Jon Niese, but I'm nearing that level of frustration because I expect much better from the Steelers.

At this point they are painting themselves into needing to knock the draft out of the fucking park. It worked last year. That doesn't happen every year.
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#524 User is offline   Pantsless Jose Lind 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:49 PM

Oh and apparently they just signed Coty Sensabaugh, the 45th rated free agent Corner. For perspective, Justin Gilbert was rated 28th.

The only way this move is a win is if he signed for Giant Eagle fuelperks.
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#525 User is offline   bucc-o-pain 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:54 PM

I honestly would rather they not sign anyone than bring in two turds like this.
Utah, get me two.
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#526 User is offline   NCBuccofan 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:07 PM

View Postjcharding, on 20 March 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

Yes, like Ladarius Green, Ryan Harris and many other mid tier free agents the Steelers have signed over the years. Why the heck are people freaking out and comparing the Steelers to the Pirates. And this is the exact same strategy that the patriots and other successful teams use. They rarely pay for premier free agents.


No one said they had to sign premier free agents. They did not even sign mid tier guys. They dumpster dived like the Pirates for one (now two) mostly useless players.

You keep telling us this is normal when it is not. Maybe when you stop talking about premier FA signings over and over, you can actually tell me why it is ok to have all these holes on the team and they can be filled by low level FAs.
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#527 User is offline   Ma13tt0 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:39 PM

View PostNCBuccofan, on 20 March 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

you can actually tell me why it is ok to have all these holes on the team and they can be filled by low level FAs.


What holes do you think have to fixed through free agency?

If you're going to say OLB there really aren't any. Most re-signed or retired (Ware) or got their 5th year option picked up. Dont'a Hightower supposedly was using them for more money.

If you're saying CB they have just as few options. Stephon Gilmore got some decent money but he's not amazing. He played like junk the first half until he bounced back at the end. Malcom Butler is a RFA. Logan Ryan signed for 3 years $30,000,000. AJ Bouye got even bigger money.

I guess rather spend the money on extending Shazier and Tuitt than spending $10,000,000 per on Logan Ryan.
"Penguin and ma13tt0 vindicated" - PF82 12/12/12 8:35 PM
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#528 User is offline   Pantsless Jose Lind 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:41 PM

View PostMa13tt0, on 20 March 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

What holes do you think have to fixed through free agency?

If you're going to say OLB there really aren't any. Most re-signed or retired (Ware) or got their 5th year option picked up. Dont'a Hightower supposedly was using them for more money.

If you're saying CB they have just as few options. Stephon Gilmore got some decent money but he's not amazing. He played like junk the first half until he bounced back at the end. Malcom Butler is a RFA. Logan Ryan signed for 3 years $30,000,000. AJ Bouye got even bigger money.

I guess rather spend the money on extending Shazier and Tuitt than spending $10,000,000 per on Logan Ryan.


Morris Claiborne and Prince Amukamara got pretty reasonable deals.
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#529 User is offline   donwengert4life 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:43 PM

View Postbucc-o-pain, on 20 March 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

I honestly would rather they not sign anyone than bring in two turds like this.


Sensabaugh is apparently a solid special teams player. So at least that fills a need.

I am tired of watching every kickoff return end up at the 35 or 40 yard line while guys on the coverage team flail and fall down all over the place.
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#530 User is offline   Ma13tt0 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:53 PM

View PostPantsless Jose Lind, on 20 March 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

Morris Claiborne and Prince Amukamara got pretty reasonable deals.


Yeah true, $5million for Clairborne and $7million for Prince. Both have been a little disappointing since they got drafted though. Have they released the amount for Sensabaughs contract? I just saw it was 2 years but they didn't give a price.
"Penguin and ma13tt0 vindicated" - PF82 12/12/12 8:35 PM
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#531 User is offline   Ma13tt0 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:55 PM

Quote

Antwon Blake - DB - Giants
Giants signed CB Antwon "Valentino" Blake, formerly of the Titans.
Perennially one of the NFL's most-burnt corners, Blake keeps getting chances for reasons unbeknownst. Ideally for the G-Men, he won't make the final 53.


He must have a binder full of nudes of the NFL's GMs.



Quote

Tyson Alualu - DL - Free Agent
Free agent DE Tyson Alualu is visiting the Steelers on Monday.
The No. 10 overall pick in the 2010 draft, 30-year-old (in May) Alualu missed the first two games of his career last season. While not overwhelmingly talented, Alualu is a reliable body up front who can play multiple positions at 6'3/304. In Pittsburgh, he would be a rotational 3-4 defensive end.


Nothing exciting there. If he wasn't drafted 10th overall he'd probably considered an ok player.
"Penguin and ma13tt0 vindicated" - PF82 12/12/12 8:35 PM
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#532 User is offline   bucc-o-pain 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:01 PM

View Postdonwengert4life, on 20 March 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

Sensabaugh is apparently a solid special teams player. So at least that fills a need.

I am tired of watching every kickoff return end up at the 35 or 40 yard line while guys on the coverage team flail and fall down all over the place.

Sensabaugh was cut by two teams last year, I doubt he is very strong on special teams.
Utah, get me two.
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#533 User is offline   Pantsless Jose Lind 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:15 PM

View PostMa13tt0, on 20 March 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

He must have a binder full of nudes of the NFL's GMs.





Nothing exciting there. If he wasn't drafted 10th overall he'd probably considered an ok player.


I wouldn't be upset about this. Ricardo Matthews was suprisingly okay last year. I guess they're letting him walk. Alualu would be an improvement to Matthews and backup DE has proven to be a pretty important spot considering the beating Heyward and Tuitt take. Can't go into the season with LT Walton filling that role.
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#534 User is offline   oblongatta 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:24 PM

Here's a real interesting read on Knile Davis from a KC blog that cites football outsiders data.

What stands out is that Knile Davis in the year(s) he got a lot of carries for the Chiefs is that he was quite awful on most of the advanced metrics. But he somehow had decent/average numbers filling in Jaamal Charles (he lost that job last year). How was that possible? He had a high number of breakaway runs because he was good and fast in the open. The problem was getting there. He just got killed behind the line a lot.

O.K. so is there any reason to maybe be optimistic? Well this blogger (if you read the link) suggests that he is really a bad runner because he used a stutter step and was too hesitant behind the line of scrimmage. Don't get me wrong, Davis is probably all kinds of awful but on the off chance that he might be able to mimic to Bell's style maybe he could be a backup.


BTW I think there's still a couple ILBs out there that they might bring in, unless they really like Williams.
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#535 User is offline   v2burghboy 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:28 PM

View Postoblongatta, on 20 March 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

Here's a real interesting read on Knile Davis from a KC blog that cites football outsiders data.

What stands out is that Knile Davis in the year(s) he got a lot of carries for the Chiefs is that he was quite awful on most of the advanced metrics. But he somehow had decent/average numbers filling in Jaamal Charles (he lost that job last year). How was that possible? He had a high number of breakaway runs because he was good and fast in the open. The problem was getting there. He just got killed behind the line a lot.

O.K. so is there any reason to maybe be optimistic? Well this blogger (if you read the link) suggests that he is really a bad runner because he used a stutter step and was too hesitant behind the line of scrimmage. Don't get me wrong, Davis is probably all kinds of awful but on the off chance that he might be able to mimic to Bell's style maybe he could be a backup.


BTW I think there's still a couple ILBs out there that they might bring in, unless they really like Williams.


Zach Brown or Gerald Hodges. Both are better than Williams, though both may demand more money than they're worth. It'll be interes
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#536 User is offline   gahran 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:34 PM

ESPN was talking about Kapaernik (or however the hell you spell it) and suggestion was that he was getting blacklisted.

He seems like he could be an interesting bridge
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#537 User is offline   oblongatta 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:36 PM

View Postv2burghboy, on 20 March 2017 - 05:28 PM, said:

Zach Brown or Gerald Hodges. Both are better than Williams, though both may demand more money than they're worth. It'll be interes


Those are the top two I was thinking about. I'm just implying that the Steelers may actually like Williams more than we think.
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#538 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:33 AM

View Postjcharding, on 20 March 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

The capped out thing is a myth. If they want to they can sign people, and often do sign mid level free agents. Like last year.


It's really not a myth. I gave you props for showing how far ($19MM) under the cap the Steelers were this offseason- I didn't realize that.

But most years, they're pressed tight up against it. People think restructuring is this magic pill that allows a team to do whatever it wants, but there's limits to it. For example, when you restructure a veteran contract to make the annual cap hit less, the veteran agrees to it because the team is giving them more money up front in a huge signing bonus.

But the signing bonus isn't free money. The amount of the bonus is taken, and extrapolated over the entire length of the new contract (even though it's paid up front), even if the player is cut before the end of the contract. So even though NFL contracts aren't "guaranteed", the signing bonus ALWAYS counts against the cap for the length of the contract.

So the Steelers were never magically "making" cap space. They were taking that money and spreading it out over a higher number of years, to artificially generate space. That's why every year for the past few years, the Steelers have had a good $10MM tied up in "dead" cap space for players that had retired or been cut years earlier.
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#539 User is offline   jcharding 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:11 AM

View PostWinterset Resurrection, on 21 March 2017 - 05:33 AM, said:

It's really not a myth. I gave you props for showing how far ($19MM) under the cap the Steelers were this offseason- I didn't realize that.

But most years, they're pressed tight up against it. People think restructuring is this magic pill that allows a team to do whatever it wants, but there's limits to it. For example, when you restructure a veteran contract to make the annual cap hit less, the veteran agrees to it because the team is giving them more money up front in a huge signing bonus.

But the signing bonus isn't free money. The amount of the bonus is taken, and extrapolated over the entire length of the new contract (even though it's paid up front), even if the player is cut before the end of the contract. So even though NFL contracts aren't "guaranteed", the signing bonus ALWAYS counts against the cap for the length of the contract.

So the Steelers were never magically "making" cap space. They were taking that money and spreading it out over a higher number of years, to artificially generate space. That's why every year for the past few years, the Steelers have had a good $10MM tied up in "dead" cap space for players that had retired or been cut years earlier.


I agree with all of that, my only point was that they can do exactly what you said and make space if they so wanted. And they did.

And actually I didn't know about the cap space either - I thought Bell and Brown would suck up whatever space they did have. Speaking of Bell he will be the most expensive RB in the NFL this year by $4m.
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#540 User is offline   NCBuccofan 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:39 AM

View PostMa13tt0, on 20 March 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

What holes do you think have to fixed through free agency?

If you're going to say OLB there really aren't any. Most re-signed or retired (Ware) or got their 5th year option picked up. Dont'a Hightower supposedly was using them for more money.

If you're saying CB they have just as few options. Stephon Gilmore got some decent money but he's not amazing. He played like junk the first half until he bounced back at the end. Malcom Butler is a RFA. Logan Ryan signed for 3 years $30,000,000. AJ Bouye got even bigger money.

I guess rather spend the money on extending Shazier and Tuitt than spending $10,000,000 per on Logan Ryan.


RB, receiver, ILB, OLB, Corner...

You are telling me there were zero mid tier FAs that could have helped the Steelers? Highly unlikely.

All of the signings so far are guys that have a better chance of being cut that helping the team next year. Coty Sensabaugh sucks. Knile Davis could not beat our a WR in Green Bay and was cut by the Jets.
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