Pittsburgh Pirates: Steeler's Offseason Thread - Pittsburgh Pirates

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Steeler's Offseason Thread Rate Topic: -----

#21 User is offline   bucc-o-pain 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 01:20 PM

View Postoblongatta, on 09 February 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

(1) I don't get the idea that Ladarius Green is gone. He may have concussion issues the rest of his career but frankly he was pretty damn good out there when he did play. That alone is worth his cap hit for at least another year.



I think his "concussion issues" are pretty big issues. Not just the number but the severity of them. I think it will come down to the Steelers needing a much more of a reliable player for that kind of money. 18 catches just isn't enough to justify the cost, in my opinion.
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#22 User is offline   ecbenito 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 02:12 PM

View Postbucc-o-pain, on 09 February 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

I would definitely wait until next year to draft a QB. This team's window is closing but not before next year, so I would use this draft to supplement the current squad. At least with all of the higher picks like rounds 1-4.

I couldn't agree with this more. They have a still elite level QB (I know DJF, ROAAAD BENNN!!!! and all), the best all around RB in the league, one of the 2 best WRs in the league (the discussion begins and ends with Julio and AB), one of the top 10 offensive lines in the league and a defense that has greatly improved. I think you approach and draft 100% of the mindset, what can we do to put this team, as currently constructed over the top. supplement the pass rush, supplement the secondary, get another weapon for the passing game and you're in really, really good shape.


Ben's replacement is not something to even consider right now (and I don't mean his backup, Landry is dogshit, upgrade that). Spending a high draft pick on a QB to hold a clip board for a few years is just fucking dumb.
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#23 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 02:33 PM

View Postecbenito, on 09 February 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

Ben's replacement is not something to even consider right now (and I don't mean his backup, Landry is dogshit, upgrade that). Spending a high draft pick on a QB to hold a clip board for a few years is just fucking dumb.


I don't think we can be certain it's "a few years", given that Ben will be 35 in a few weeks, has a history of concussions and having the hell beat out of him, and has already hinted at retirement.

Again, you don't want to wait to draft a QB until you HAVE to. That's when teams get stuck with total shit for QB.
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#24 User is offline   oblongatta 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 02:44 PM

View PostWinterset Resurrection, on 09 February 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

I don't think we can be certain it's "a few years", given that Ben will be 35 in a few weeks, has a history of concussions and having the hell beat out of him, and has already hinted at retirement.

Again, you don't want to wait to draft a QB until you HAVE to. That's when teams get stuck with total shit for QB.


100% disagree. I would wager the majority of the best QBs were all drafted when the team needed to draft a QB. Aaron Rodgers might be the exception (and Brady but that was long ago). Possibly Russell Wilson, but I don't think that Seattle imagined he would be the top QB. Oh yeah, Rivers maybe but that was a weird one since they traded Brees

Off the top of my head here are a list of QBs that were drafted when the team needed to: Ben, Manning, Brees, Newton, Ryan, Luck, Carr, Stafford. I think all of them were drafted with starting as soon as possible being the idea. The idea that someone gets drafted while that have a good QB and learns under them hasn't happened since Rodgers.

edit: early but I think Wentz and Winston fit that as well.
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#25 User is offline   oblongatta 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 02:53 PM

Just a follow-up. Think of that for a second. Here are the QBs that were playing at a high level when a team drafted their successor: Farve, Bledsoe and Brees.

Think about how long ago those names are from.


(and I mentioned Russel Wilson because I couldn't remember but Carroll did draft him to start right away so put him in the other column)
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#26 User is offline   Trey_Beamon 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 02:57 PM

View Postjestor92, on 09 February 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

Not Steelers news but i see Cleveland cut josh mccown. Didn't they turn down draft picks for him last season


Is he an upgrade over Landry? He's never been around talent like the Steelers, but I'm not sure if I want two 35-plus QBs on the roster.
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#27 User is offline   Grey 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 04:06 PM

I'm in favor of drafting a qb in the first round: On the down side of 35, but with a shit load of injuries, when Ben slides down, the fall will be off a cliff, and very very fast.
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#28 User is offline   donwengert4life 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 05:52 PM

View PostGrey, on 09 February 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

I'm in favor of drafting a qb in the first round: On the down side of 35, but with a shit load of injuries, when Ben slides down, the fall will be off a cliff, and very very fast.


And it pretty clearly has already started. I think you have to seriously consider drafting a first round QB if he is there or, more likely, if you can make a reasonable deal to trade up.
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#29 User is offline   coolpapacole 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 07:21 PM

If a guy they really like falls to them, I have no problem with them going QB in any round. However, I don't want them going QB just to go QB. They should be trying to win now while we still have Ben. It isn't like spending even a first round pick is a guarantee you get a good guy.
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#30 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 08:02 PM

View Postoblongatta, on 09 February 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

Just a follow-up. Think of that for a second. Here are the QBs that were playing at a high level when a team drafted their successor: Farve, Bledsoe and Brees.

Think about how long ago those names are from.


Okay, but in two of those cases (Favre --> Rogers, Bledsoe --> Brady), you're talking about two of the most well-respected, consistently-dominant franchises in the NFL.

That's not bad company to emulate.
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#31 User is offline   silverspring 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 08:20 PM

View PostWinterset Resurrection, on 09 February 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

I see what you're saying, but you also don't want to get in a position where Ben retires, and you HAVE to draft a QB. That leads to teams using a very high pick for a QB not always worth the pick, and then having to spend a few years trying to make the guy into a franchise QB, even if he's not.

Starting this year, if a highly-rated QB falls to the Steelers in the 1st-2nd round, I would absolutely take him, and not think twice about it. As others have said, there's not really an immediate glaring need (outside of WR, IMO) that has to be filled ASAP. This is a rare luxury year where the Steelers really can use a pick on a guy like a QB without it burning them.

I don't care what team you are and what position you're in. If you trust your evaluation and a franchise QB is within reach TAKE THE FUCK OUT OF HIM.

Neil O'Donnell might have been the best QB we had between Bradshaw and Ben. No fucking thank you. Not again, not if we can help it.
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#32 User is offline   jcharding 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 09:40 PM

Personally I think y'all should mentally prepare for a decade or so of badness. The Steelers have been winning for far too long, and even the Kordell and ODonnell eras don't really hint at just how lucky the Steelers have been. Or even Bubby or Tomczak eras.
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#33 User is offline   Grey 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 09:43 PM

I like DeShawn Watson: Winner. Clutch. Makes plays and is great in money time. Would be a great Steeler, and could learn on the bench for 2 years.

I'll come out and say it: I think Ben has two years left, that's it.
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#34 User is online   DoctorJohnnyFever 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 10:27 PM

View PostWinterset Resurrection, on 09 February 2017 - 08:02 PM, said:

Okay, but in two of those cases (Favre --> Rogers, Bledsoe --> Brady), you're talking about two of the most well-respected, consistently-dominant franchises in the NFL.

That's not bad company to emulate.


I don't think the Patriots drafted Tom Brady with the plan that he would be Drew Bledsoe's successor, or the greatest quarterback of all time. If they believed he was that good they would have picked him before the sixth round.
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#35 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 11:19 PM

View PostGrey, on 09 February 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

I like DeShawn Watson: Winner. Clutch. Makes plays and is great in money time. Would be a great Steeler, and could learn on the bench for 2 years.

I'll come out and say it: I think Ben has two years left, that's it.


I think Watson is a really classy guy. Sadly, it seems like this is a really weak QB class, and so he's probably going to get plucked sooner than he normally would.

If he fell to the Steelers (which he won't)- or the Steelers were able to move up a few picks to grab him- I would absolutely do so.
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#36 User is offline   Thunder 

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 08:06 AM

View PostGrey, on 09 February 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

I like DeShawn Watson: Winner. Clutch. Makes plays and is great in money time. Would be a great Steeler, and could learn on the bench for 2 years.

I'll come out and say it: I think Ben has two years left, that's it.

Steelers would probably have to trade up considerably to even have a shot at him.
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#37 User is offline   Gideon Clarke 

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 08:39 AM

View Postoblongatta, on 09 February 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

100% disagree. I would wager the majority of the best QBs were all drafted when the team needed to draft a QB. Aaron Rodgers might be the exception (and Brady but that was long ago). Possibly Russell Wilson, but I don't think that Seattle imagined he would be the top QB. Oh yeah, Rivers maybe but that was a weird one since they traded Brees

Off the top of my head here are a list of QBs that were drafted when the team needed to: Ben, Manning, Brees, Newton, Ryan, Luck, Carr, Stafford. I think all of them were drafted with starting as soon as possible being the idea. The idea that someone gets drafted while that have a good QB and learns under them hasn't happened since Rodgers.

edit: early but I think Wentz and Winston fit that as well.

Steelers both did not need a QB when they took Ben and were planning to let him sit as a rookie. He only played right away because of injury.

Giants hadn't had a good QB the year before they drafted Manning (assuming you're talking about Shitty Manning and not Fivehead Manning or Oldguy Manning), but they had just signed Kurt Warner, who some people consider a fringe HOFer. If you're talking about Fivehead, then yeah, the Colts had dogshit at QB when they drafted him.

I'd rather emulate the Packers, the Patriots and the Giants than the Chargers, the Raiders and the Lions. Or just stay the Steelers instead of turning into the Colts.
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#38 User is offline   Gideon Clarke 

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 08:43 AM

View PostDoctorJohnnyFever, on 09 February 2017 - 10:27 PM, said:

If they believed he was that good they would have picked him before the sixth round.

Teams pick players based not just on how good they think they will be, but also when they think they can get them. You don't spend a first round pick on a guy that no other team is going to draft, even if you think he's going to be a HOF player. To do so would actually be a waste of a first-round pick, because you can get your overlooked star later and get another player with first-round talent in the same draft.
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#39 User is offline   Dunc Wilson 

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 08:47 AM

View Postoblongatta, on 09 February 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:




(and I mentioned Russel Wilson because I couldn't remember but Carroll did draft him to start right away so put him in the other column)



Actually, a month or so before the Seahawks drafted Wilson, they went out and signed Matt Flynn to a big free agent deal. Wilson beat him out for the starting job.
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From the fertile imagination of bradlej31:

I really don't think they'll make either a qualifying offer.

I believe both signed in 2012 under the pretense of the Pirates not offering a qualifying offer.   

If you think that it's stupid then do you think it's stupid if they would've signed with someone else?  I personally think is genius because I don't think any other team has started doing that yet to attract FAs.

After Martin leaves without a qualifying offer it will become pretty obvious though.  I hope they sign another similar type free-agent or two before they don't qualify Martin.  It's their little secret right now but it'll get out here in two months.
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#40 User is offline   coolpapacole 

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 10:16 AM

View PostGideon Clarke, on 10 February 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

Teams pick players based not just on how good they think they will be, but also when they think they can get them. You don't spend a first round pick on a guy that no other team is going to draft, even if you think he's going to be a HOF player. To do so would actually be a waste of a first-round pick, because you can get your overlooked star later and get another player with first-round talent in the same draft.

While this is true to an extent, if they had known how good Brady was going to be there is no way in hell they would have waited as long as they did to draft him.
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