Pittsburgh Pirates: 2015-16 NBA Season Thread - Pittsburgh Pirates

Jump to content

  • 64 Pages +
  • « First
  • 62
  • 63
  • 64
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

2015-16 NBA Season Thread Rate Topic: -----

#1261 User is online   Winterset Resurrection 

  • TEAM CAT
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,919
  • Joined: 15-November 16
  • Gender:Male

Posted Today, 03:04 AM

Yeah, I don't even bat an eye anymore when Philly acquires a 2nd round pick in trade. About the only thing they're good for is coupling a couple of them together to get some sucker team to let you trade back into the 1st round for them.

On the Fultz pick, the one and only thing that worries me is Washington really shit the bed down the stretch this year. A truly elite level player is often able to put his college team on his back and carry them, much like Steph Curry did with Davidson.
"The problem in this country, is that almost no one's sense of community or country extends beyond their wallet." -GoBucs

"Just let everyone do whatever they want. Sports are entertainment. Stop taking them so seriously." -PSU4Lyfe
0

#1262 User is offline   NCBuccofan 

  • All Star
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,667
  • Joined: 19-April 16

Posted Today, 08:29 AM

So I am a casual fan, mostly only follow the Hornets. Why would they trade up to the 31 pick in the second and then trade that for the 40th pick?
0

#1263 User is offline   Ma13tt0 

  • Manager
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 14,412
  • Joined: 16-November 08
  • Gender:Male

Posted Today, 09:40 AM

View PostNCBuccofan, on 23 June 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

So I am a casual fan, mostly only follow the Hornets. Why would they trade up to the 31 pick in the second and then trade that for the 40th pick?


I never understood stuff like that. Like when the Bulls picked Lamarcus Aldridge at #2 then traded him for Thomas who was taken at #4. Why not just draft Thomas at #2? Not to mention that was a bad assessment of talent.
"Penguin and ma13tt0 vindicated" - PF82 12/12/12 8:35 PM
0

#1264 User is online   Winterset Resurrection 

  • TEAM CAT
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,919
  • Joined: 15-November 16
  • Gender:Male

Posted Today, 10:03 AM

The short answer is, "It's the NBA."
"The problem in this country, is that almost no one's sense of community or country extends beyond their wallet." -GoBucs

"Just let everyone do whatever they want. Sports are entertainment. Stop taking them so seriously." -PSU4Lyfe
0

#1265 User is offline   NCBuccofan 

  • All Star
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,667
  • Joined: 19-April 16

Posted Today, 10:16 AM

View PostMa13tt0, on 23 June 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

I never understood stuff like that. Like when the Bulls picked Lamarcus Aldridge at #2 then traded him for Thomas who was taken at #4. Why not just draft Thomas at #2? Not to mention that was a bad assessment of talent.


The Hornets got cash in return too, but what is the point of that? I know cash considerations in baseball are so you can have both teams trading something or to cover salary, but this was a trade of two guys that have not even made a team yet.

Plus the Hornets could use a PG.
0

#1266 User is online   PSU4Lyfe 

  • Veteran Manager
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 42,618
  • Joined: 16-November 08
  • Gender:Male

Posted Today, 10:26 AM

 NCBuccofan, on 23 June 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

So I am a casual fan, mostly only follow the Hornets. Why would they trade up to the 31 pick in the second and then trade that for the 40th pick?


The cap is expected to come in at $99M, which is about $3M lower than previous projections of $102M. The Hornets were on the edge of the tax threshold, and as part of moving back they got cash considerations that will ensure they stay below the tax line. Considering how unlikely it is for a 2nd round pick to make much of an impact, or even make the NBA roster in year 1 or 2, they probably got a similar talent a few picks back and kept themselves from paying a hefty tax bill.
Disclaimer: This post in no way supports nor defends the signing of Rod Barajas.
0

#1267 User is offline   Ma13tt0 

  • Manager
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 14,412
  • Joined: 16-November 08
  • Gender:Male

Posted Today, 01:17 PM

View PostWinterset Resurrection, on 23 June 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

The short answer is, "It's the NBA."


I never understand NBA trades. The expiring contracts and stuff, I guess its a salary cap numbers thing but still just confuses me that teams trade good players for an old shitty player because his contract is expiring. Then again they do that shit in the MLB, except they include the good young players in with the old player. Fucking Neil.
"Penguin and ma13tt0 vindicated" - PF82 12/12/12 8:35 PM
0

#1268 User is online   jcharding 

  • Bench Manager
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5,048
  • Joined: 17-November 08

Posted Today, 01:24 PM

View PostMa13tt0, on 23 June 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

I never understand NBA trades. The expiring contracts and stuff, I guess its a salary cap numbers thing but still just confuses me that teams trade good players for an old shitty player because his contract is expiring. Then again they do that shit in the MLB, except they include the good young players in with the old player. Fucking Neil.


Its no different than the thinking behind many of the NHL Expansion Draft decisions, except the NBA uses that thinking year round.
I am nevertheless too sensible of my defects not to think it probable that I may have committed many posting errors.

I always turn to the sports pages first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures.
0

#1269 User is offline   NCBuccofan 

  • All Star
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,667
  • Joined: 19-April 16

Posted Today, 01:25 PM

View PostPSU4Lyfe, on 23 June 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

The cap is expected to come in at $99M, which is about $3M lower than previous projections of $102M. The Hornets were on the edge of the tax threshold, and as part of moving back they got cash considerations that will ensure they stay below the tax line. Considering how unlikely it is for a 2nd round pick to make much of an impact, or even make the NBA roster in year 1 or 2, they probably got a similar talent a few picks back and kept themselves from paying a hefty tax bill.


Ok, so they are sending cap space? That makes more sense.
0

#1270 User is online   PSU4Lyfe 

  • Veteran Manager
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 42,618
  • Joined: 16-November 08
  • Gender:Male

Posted Today, 01:29 PM

 Ma13tt0, on 23 June 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

I never understand NBA trades. The expiring contracts and stuff, I guess its a salary cap numbers thing but still just confuses me that teams trade good players for an old shitty player because his contract is expiring. Then again they do that shit in the MLB, except they include the good young players in with the old player. Fucking Neil.


Generally teams trading for an expiring contract have a plan to sign players via free agency, but don't have the cap space to do so in the near future. For example if they have a guy making $20M against the cap for 3 more years, and he is not going to help them win right now because he's not worth that cap number, they may trade him and an asset like a pick to a team that has a lot of cap space or isn't close to competing and can take on that contract. So it would then allow them to not re-sign that player with the expiring deal, and theoretically have $20M in cap space to use on a player or players that could help them sooner. The team taking on the contract would be able to absorb it because they aren't competing now, and they get a draft pick for taking on a bad player.

The greatest example of this is when the Cavs took Baron Davis from the Clippers, and the Clippers attached their first round pick to him to allow them the cap space to put together the team that made he playoffs in 2011/2012. The Cavs essentially bought the pick because they amnestied Davis almost immediately, as they had no use for him as an old broken down player on a rebuilding team. That Clippers pick turned in to Kyrie Irving.
Disclaimer: This post in no way supports nor defends the signing of Rod Barajas.
1

#1271 User is offline   Ma13tt0 

  • Manager
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 14,412
  • Joined: 16-November 08
  • Gender:Male

Posted Today, 01:50 PM

View PostPSU4Lyfe, on 23 June 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

The greatest example of this is when the Cavs took Baron Davis from the Clippers, and the Clippers attached their first round pick to him to allow them the cap space to put together the team that made he playoffs in 2011/2012. The Cavs essentially bought the pick because they amnestied Davis almost immediately, as they had no use for him as an old broken down player on a rebuilding team. That Clippers pick turned in to Kyrie Irving.


That makes sense I guess. Although I feel like its just a giant circle of teams paying for FA players and then regretting it and trading them off again.

Maybe its easy to tell, maybe it isn't, but how often does a pick like that actually turn into anything worth while? I guess you'd have a general idea of how good or bad a team might be. But is the chance the 16th player in the draft turns into anything worth screwing over a rival team while they sit in cap hell? I have a feeling I probably wouldn't be popular with other GMs if I did that.

An example based on football, because thats the only sport I really understand the FO shit, would be I'd rather see the Ravens struggle with the cap paying Flacco all that money than take a 4th round pick and Flacco from them. I mean the Browns did basically that with Osweiler I suppose, but I also wouldn't trust the Browns with making the right pick.
"Penguin and ma13tt0 vindicated" - PF82 12/12/12 8:35 PM
0

#1272 User is online   PSU4Lyfe 

  • Veteran Manager
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 42,618
  • Joined: 16-November 08
  • Gender:Male

Posted Today, 02:02 PM

 Ma13tt0, on 23 June 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

That makes sense I guess. Although I feel like its just a giant circle of teams paying for FA players and then regretting it and trading them off again.

Maybe its easy to tell, maybe it isn't, but how often does a pick like that actually turn into anything worth while? I guess you'd have a general idea of how good or bad a team might be. But is the chance the 16th player in the draft turns into anything worth screwing over a rival team while they sit in cap hell? I have a feeling I probably wouldn't be popular with other GMs if I did that.

An example based on football, because thats the only sport I really understand the FO shit, would be I'd rather see the Ravens struggle with the cap paying Flacco all that money than take a 4th round pick and Flacco from them. I mean the Browns did basically that with Osweiler I suppose, but I also wouldn't trust the Browns with making the right pick.


The difference in football is that there are cap holds even if you trade a player away. So even if you do dump an expiring contract then you owe that cap space. At least I think you do.

It's not so much about getting a team out of cap hell as a good will move, as it is weighing where you're at and where you want to go. The Cavs team had just lost LeBron and was stacking assets any way they could. They were not close to being good, and they have an owner that for all his flaws is mega rich. The Cavs and Clippers were in no way peers or competitors at the time. Almost every time you see those deals go down between a bad team and a good team.

So they traded away Mo Williams(an All Star SG at the time) and bought Baron Davis' contract to have a shot at a young player. Cleveland wasn't needing Mo Williams and Dan Gilbert has probably spent $20M on dumber things than a draft pick. In that case it turned out to be a really good gamble because it became Kyrie Irving. It's all about calculated gambles really. That was their only shot at the time of acquiring a franchise player. Cleveland wasn't getting any free agents to go there.

The best way to fix competitive balance in the NBA IMO is to remove the cap. It would make it much harder for teams to accumulate and consolidate talent. If Sacramento is offering Klay Thompson $40M per year, and they're already paying Steph and Durant like $50M each, is Lacob willing to go that high to win? The only thing the cap does is keep the owners from losing money and guarantees profits. Salary caps do not promote competitive balance in any way.
Disclaimer: This post in no way supports nor defends the signing of Rod Barajas.
0

#1273 User is online   PSU4Lyfe 

  • Veteran Manager
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 42,618
  • Joined: 16-November 08
  • Gender:Male

Posted Today, 06:15 PM

Chris Paul and Blake Griffin opting out makes things more interesting
Disclaimer: This post in no way supports nor defends the signing of Rod Barajas.
0

Share this topic:


  • 64 Pages +
  • « First
  • 62
  • 63
  • 64
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic