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Pirates Spring Training Thread Rate Topic: -----

#41 User is offline   mzimmerman81 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:22 AM

So two years in a row this fucking team hasn't done anything to add to payroll or get any better?

awesome
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#42 User is offline   BadAndy79 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:33 AM

View PostSyrBucco, on 21 March 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

Hoping we will see a late trade involving Bastardo as ST injuries mount up. He's pitched pretty well for us but I would rather hang on to the Rule 5 kid, Webb, from the Yankees, than be stuck short next year when Bastardo and Watson leave. There's Brault, sure, but I've read good things about Webb.

Having said that, must admit that there is no sign of smoke in any of the sites I read. I wouldn't ask much for Bastardo. The salary relief alone should be attractive enough for the cheap bastards.

Apart from that, I am mostly worried about Marte's ankle. His game relies on speed and he clearly suffered in the WBC after rolling the ankle. I don't want to start the year off with a different defensive alignment than the one they've planned - it would rightly confuse the players.


Both Bastardo and Watson have had terrible springs. Jared Hughes is bad to the point he shouldn't even be on the AAA roster anywhere. AJ Schugel has been bad, lucky for him he has an option to be sent down. Tyler Webb has been kinda meh. Wade Leblanc. He's a good mop up guy but that's it.

Really the bullpen is a huge weak spot. Especially if Watson shits the bed as closer (and he will). I really think Felipe Rivero should be anointed closer going forward. Daniel Hudson and his big (for Nutting's wallet that is) money contract should be set up guy. Nicasio the 7th inning reliever. The other 4? Hell who knows. Hughes shouldnt be there. Bastardo shouldnt be there. Watson I guess if the other teams somehow dont acquire him.

Man I just don't like the middle relief at all going forward.

On the subject of Marte. I'd say half of his yearly 5 WAR is his speed. Otherwise he would need to be pull heavy for power which makes it worse. Signing a 4th outfielder (like they did with Matt Joyce) would have better served them. But now it seems we'll have to rely on Hanson, Frazier, and even Osuna. That ends up hurting them more than helping them.
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#43 User is offline   Vegetable 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:43 AM

View PostGoBucs21, on 21 March 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

I like the idea but there are some administrative issues related to it. The fifth starter would have to be a non-roster player, who could be assigned to the minors. I believe any rostered player is optioned, had to stay in the minors at least 10 days. The only exception is for an injury.



Didn't know about that rule. Maybe Osuna could suffer a mysterious injury so that they could bring the fifth starter up. Wouldn't be the first questionable injury.
"We’ll be comfortable adding one (starter),” he said. “We’ll be comfortable adding nobody if it’s just not there. We don’t feel we are driven to force it. If we can add one that makes sense for us, that’s great. If we can add two that make sense … then we do that.”
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#44 User is offline   Vegetable 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:05 AM

View PostNCBuccofan, on 21 March 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

Good point, but probably no point in keeping him after that. He will just rot at the end of the bench, used only for 7th inning PH opportunities. Hurdle has little use for backup 1B types.


You probably right but they could use a power threat. If Freese is the everyday third baseman (until and if Kang shows up), maybe there will be some ABs available at first base for a RH bat. Bell switch hits but has sucked so far this spring. Playing Osuna in the OF in place of Polanco against some tough lefties could also be an option. Not sure they really need both Hanson and Gosselin on the roster at the same time - could be one gets traded or maybe Gosselin goes to AAA if he has options. That would open up a bench spot for Osuna.
"We’ll be comfortable adding one (starter),” he said. “We’ll be comfortable adding nobody if it’s just not there. We don’t feel we are driven to force it. If we can add one that makes sense for us, that’s great. If we can add two that make sense … then we do that.”
Opie Taylor. In a decisive moment.
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#45 User is offline   bucc-o-pain 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:33 AM

View Postmzimmerman81, on 21 March 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

So two years in a row this fucking team hasn't done anything to add to payroll or get any better?

awesome

Coming off a 78 win season nonetheless. That tells you all you need to know about this piece of shit organization.
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#46 User is offline   PSU4Lyfe 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:17 PM

The Pirates should absolutely be in on the trade rumors for Alex Cobb. It's reported that both the Cubs and Dodgers are interested, but he would be a nice upside addition to the rotation. I'm not sure what he would cost, and he is in his last year before more than likely becoming a free agent, but that would really help out the back end of the rotation
Disclaimer: This post in no way supports nor defends the signing of Rod Barajas.
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#47 User is offline   jcharding 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 04:25 PM

I dunno. As a Knicks fan and a Pirates fan it's kind of hard to see much of a difference.
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#48 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 04:45 PM

View PostPSU4Lyfe, on 21 March 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

The Pirates should absolutely be in on the trade rumors for Alex Cobb. It's reported that both the Cubs and Dodgers are interested, but he would be a nice upside addition to the rotation. I'm not sure what he would cost, and he is in his last year before more than likely becoming a free agent, but that would really help out the back end of the rotation


The Pirates would never do it. Only one year remaining, missed all of 2015, posted an 8.59 ERA in 5 rehab starts in 2016...

The Rays are still going to want a decent prospect haul, based on the pitcher Cobb WAS from 2011-2014. No way the risk-averse Pirates even consider it.
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#49 User is offline   PSU4Lyfe 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:31 PM

View PostWinterset Resurrection, on 21 March 2017 - 04:45 PM, said:

The Pirates would never do it. Only one year remaining, missed all of 2015, posted an 8.59 ERA in 5 rehab starts in 2016...

The Rays are still going to want a decent prospect haul, based on the pitcher Cobb WAS from 2011-2014. No way the risk-averse Pirates even consider it.


They won't but they should. His rehab starts can pretty much be thrown out and he looks fine this spring.
Disclaimer: This post in no way supports nor defends the signing of Rod Barajas.
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#50 User is offline   Jermaine Allensworth 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:31 PM

View PostWinterset Resurrection, on 21 March 2017 - 04:45 PM, said:

posted an 8.59 ERA in 5 rehab starts in 2016...


Based on Neil's track record of acquisitions, the higher the ERA, the better.
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#51 User is offline   silverspring 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:13 PM

We sure are gearing up for some baseball, guys. It's nearly here and then hopefully they start fas- ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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#52 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:00 PM

Silverspring soars.
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#53 User is offline   NCBuccofan 

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 06:41 AM

View PostGoBucs21, on 21 March 2017 - 08:27 AM, said:

If the days don't start until the regular season, that is the problem.


Looks like it does, so April 2 would be day one. They could of course, just skip the 5th starter's first turn, since they do not need him the first time thru.
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#54 User is offline   SyrBucco 

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:38 AM

View PostBadAndy79, on 21 March 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

Both Bastardo and Watson have had terrible springs. Jared Hughes is bad to the point he shouldn't even be on the AAA roster anywhere. AJ Schugel has been bad, lucky for him he has an option to be sent down. Tyler Webb has been kinda meh. Wade Leblanc. He's a good mop up guy but that's it.

Really the bullpen is a huge weak spot. Especially if Watson shits the bed as closer (and he will). I really think Felipe Rivero should be anointed closer going forward. Daniel Hudson and his big (for Nutting's wallet that is) money contract should be set up guy. Nicasio the 7th inning reliever. The other 4? Hell who knows. Hughes shouldnt be there. Bastardo shouldnt be there. Watson I guess if the other teams somehow dont acquire him.

Man I just don't like the middle relief at all going forward.

On the subject of Marte. I'd say half of his yearly 5 WAR is his speed. Otherwise he would need to be pull heavy for power which makes it worse. Signing a 4th outfielder (like they did with Matt Joyce) would have better served them. But now it seems we'll have to rely on Hanson, Frazier, and even Osuna. That ends up hurting them more than helping them.

Agree that the bullpen is a weak spot. Have read that Hughes is traditionally poor in ST because he works on new pitches in new locations - usually without success. Hughes remains a one-trick pony, but if he throws his sinker for strikes he may still be useful.
Can't figure Watson out this ST. Without any real pressure, he should be doing better. Got the feeling that he had trouble putting Big Boy Closer Pants on last year after the Shark left.
Problem with giving Rivero the closer job is that he walks so damn many people, but I agree that he has the stuff to do it, even facing righties, with his nasty changeup.
Trying to keep an open mind about Hudson, and really do think that Nicasio is underrated and should be in the "final four", if I may borrow/transplant that phrase.
I would try to keep Webb as the long reliever/mopup guy. Don't see LeBlanc's value based upon his long term history. Anybody can have a couple of decent weeks.
Gotta move Bastardo. He should be a decent addition to a team needing a lefty reliever. We just have a surplus this season.
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#55 User is offline   oblongatta 

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:53 AM

In a re-evaluation, I don't hate the World Baseball Classic (or whatever it is called).

My biggest criticism is the same as that for hockey (World Cup/Olympics). I root for the pro team. I don't want to see the players for my team getting hurt in some side tournament. I'll admit that it is less risky in baseball than hockey because the physicality of the sport. So that is mitigated somewhat.

Second I would prefer the players to be under the umbrella of the coaching and medical staff of the current team. The one thing you can be sure is they are putting the team first or maybe the player within the team. They won't overwork them and they have large control over how they practice. (I'll ignore the caveat that putting the team first isn't always great and the obvious joke of with the Pirates, this is a plus).

The second concern is also mitigated in baseball. First, these teams while trying to win are aware that pitchers are not stretched out. They are baseball people and if nothing else, most baseball people are traditionalists. Second, it is likely to be the better players that are in the WBC so they will have their own schedule anyway. Many of them will be working on reps rather than working on new stuff.

So there's my big concerns being mitigated. Now are there pluses? I think so.

The players in camp, those that do need to work on stuff are getting more time to do so and have more attention of the coaches. This seems to be a plus. And it seems like there will be more time available to get reps as well.

But then I saw this in the PG today:

Quote

Polanco, 25, took advantage of the veteran-packed Dominican roster, getting pointers in the batting cages from Robinson Cano and Jose Bautista. They noticed Polanco had trouble handling the inside fastball. Cano and Bautista placed a pitched screen along the heart of home plate and fed Polanco soft toss inside. Don’t hit the net, they said. Shorten your swing, but don’t pull the ball.

“They are good for something,” Polanco said, laughing. “It worked, for sure.”


This could just be spring training bullshit fluff, but maybe not? At the very least, the players are getting some additional time not just with a different set of coaches but with some damn good players. Ones that have worked through stuff and may have some personal reflections to offer if not actual coaching.


In sum, I flipped over to thinking the WBC is a good thing. Who knows, maybe trading Bautista will finally pay off. The plan all along was to trade him to an organization that could coach him up and have a breakout as a great player so that 8+ years later he could show a Pirate prospect some tips. Great trade Neal!
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#56 User is offline   NCBuccofan 

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:07 AM

Hughes just sucks in general. Should have been replaced at least two years ago.
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#57 User is offline   donwengert4life 

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:50 AM

View Postoblongatta, on 22 March 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

In a re-evaluation, I don't hate the World Baseball Classic (or whatever it is called).

My biggest criticism is the same as that for hockey (World Cup/Olympics). I root for the pro team. I don't want to see the players for my team getting hurt in some side tournament. I'll admit that it is less risky in baseball than hockey because the physicality of the sport. So that is mitigated somewhat.

Second I would prefer the players to be under the umbrella of the coaching and medical staff of the current team. The one thing you can be sure is they are putting the team first or maybe the player within the team. They won't overwork them and they have large control over how they practice. (I'll ignore the caveat that putting the team first isn't always great and the obvious joke of with the Pirates, this is a plus).

The second concern is also mitigated in baseball. First, these teams while trying to win are aware that pitchers are not stretched out. They are baseball people and if nothing else, most baseball people are traditionalists. Second, it is likely to be the better players that are in the WBC so they will have their own schedule anyway. Many of them will be working on reps rather than working on new stuff.

So there's my big concerns being mitigated. Now are there pluses? I think so.

The players in camp, those that do need to work on stuff are getting more time to do so and have more attention of the coaches. This seems to be a plus. And it seems like there will be more time available to get reps as well.

But then I saw this in the PG today:


This could just be spring training bullshit fluff, but maybe not? At the very least, the players are getting some additional time not just with a different set of coaches but with some damn good players. Ones that have worked through stuff and may have some personal reflections to offer if not actual coaching.


In sum, I flipped over to thinking the WBC is a good thing. Who knows, maybe trading Bautista will finally pay off. The plan all along was to trade him to an organization that could coach him up and have a breakout as a great player so that 8+ years later he could show a Pirate prospect some tips. Great trade Neal!


I still can't believe no one went after Bautista this winter. I mean, sure, he's apparently kind of an asshole but if you eliminated all assholes from the major leagues you would have some pretty small rosters.
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#58 User is offline   Sloshy 

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 11:11 AM

SRod and Joyce added up to a full-time player with 30+ HRs and something like a combined .920 OPS over 550+ PAs. That was a huge amount of SLG that we didn't replace at all. Even if Cutch returns to full capability, it may only just replace that production from the bench.

But the offense wasn't the problem anyway. It was largely the same offense that won 98 games. It's the rotation.

Cole back to 100% will help a lot, as would continued advancement of Taillon. That's a dynamic 1/2 with steady production out of Nova. The difference is not having a #4 guy.

This team contends with Quintana and barely breaks .500 without him. It's not only his upgraded production out of the #2/3 spot - it's how it pushes Nova to #4 and let's #5 be Kuhn with a low-4.00 era. That's why an upgrade to the rotation is so much more significant than a position player.
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#59 User is offline   silverspring 

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 04:09 PM

View PostSloshy, on 22 March 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

SRod and Joyce added up to a full-time player with 30+ HRs and something like a combined .920 OPS over 550+ PAs. That was a huge amount of SLG that we didn't replace at all. Even if Cutch returns to full capability, it may only just replace that production from the bench.

But the offense wasn't the problem anyway. It was largely the same offense that won 98 games. It's the rotation.

Cole back to 100% will help a lot, as would continued advancement of Taillon. That's a dynamic 1/2 with steady production out of Nova. The difference is not having a #4 guy.

This team contends with Quintana and barely breaks .500 without him. It's not only his upgraded production out of the #2/3 spot - it's how it pushes Nova to #4 and let's #5 be Kuhn with a low-4.00 era. That's why an upgrade to the rotation is so much more significant than a position player.

I still think Cole has another level to reach. He's been impressive but he could take a step forward and become... (digs through memes from 5 years ago)... The Ace You All Seem To Think We Need. He's going to have to if this team is to sniff the wildcard.
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#60 User is offline   NYPirate 

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 05:11 PM

Are the White Sox seriously asking for Glasnow, Meadows, AND Keller for Quintana? Fuck that.
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