Pittsburgh Pirates: Defending Tony Sanchez - Pittsburgh Pirates

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Defending Tony Sanchez

#161 User is offline   mvk112 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:04 PM

QUOTE (mzimmerman81 @ Jun 26 2009, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Better to have tiny hands then to be anally reamed on repeated occasions.


You would know better than me, on both accounts.
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#162 User is offline   The Lumber Company 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:05 PM

QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jun 26 2009, 03:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
More than a few had him going #12 to the Royals.

Links?
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#163 User is offline   GoBucs21 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:05 PM

QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jun 26 2009, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You would know better than me, on both accounts.

After today he doesn't.
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#164 User is offline   ecbenito 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:05 PM

QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jun 26 2009, 03:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
More than a few had him going #12 to the Royals.


fine use that as the projection slot for #12 is $1,620,000 (and I never saw anyone projecting him at 12, but i'll bite), . If the pirates offered him between 1.5M and 1.75M, do you really think it's worth the risk of holding out next year when your ceiling is 1.62M and there is a much better than 50% chance you'll get drafted in the mid to late 20s? I would kick my agent in the balls if he advised me this way.
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#165 User is offline   jeffr92 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:07 PM

Josh Satin's (6 Rd, #194 Overall) agent stinx. He only got his client $25K, while everyone else around him was getting $150K.

http://www.pgcrosschecker.com/draft/2008/b...bonuses_08.aspx
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#166 User is offline   mvk112 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:11 PM

QUOTE (GoBucs21 @ Jun 26 2009, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The agents job is to get the best deal possible. In some cases, it will be well above slot. In others it will be well below. To do otherwise, is doing the client a disservice.

So if you were Sanchez's agent, you would have told him to walk away from a $1.5M final offer? That's what you would do as his agent, knowing that he would likely do know better by waiting a year.


I would have him working out in Miami for the next month and a half, waiting for the Pirates to get serious. If the offer never was upped, he'd be going back into the draft next year, just like Crow and Scheppers did.

Also, and I may be mistaken, but I thought there was something last year that said the team had to put in a qualifying offer at least at slot in order to get the compensation pick the following year. I thought that was why there was an initial offer in June/July that they made Boras, but then they never got back to talking until mid August came around.
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#167 User is offline   Penguin 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:13 PM

Let me see if I got this straight. Mvk's argument hinges on:

1.That no player should sign for below slot, even though we've already shown how not only is slot an arbitrary number, but players actually do sign for below slot.

2. Fatchez could have been drafted as high as 12.

3. 12th slot money is still almost 1 million less than what the Pirates offered.

4. Had the Pirates offered between 1.5 - 1.75 million, Fatchez should have rejected it and sat out on the hope he's a top 20 pick next year despite have even less leverage and the 2010 draft likely being stronger.

Did I miss anything?
"The business of baseball is to make money, not break even. I don't understand why you think the Pirates should run their team like a charity." - Willlton 6/18/2009

"The Bay trade doesn't look like it (a slam dunk winner), but if you take into account the fact that all they lost was eight months of Jason Bay's services, as well as the fact that even the Red Sox look like they won't be able to re-sign him, it's not nearly the loser many people seem to think." - tWTM 11/26/2009

"Morton is finding himself, now while this may sound weird and out there, but the fact he put on a solo concert at Piratefest shows he finally has the confidence that he lacked within himself that he didn't have in the lower minors." - aso513 2/8/2010

"Dave Littlefield vindicated." - Xiga 4/30/2011 after one scoreless inning of relief by Daniel Moskos.

"Hanrahan and Cedeno would be a gross overpayment for Belt. Sorry, but I'll stick with my realistic analysis of the market and the teams involved." - Steve Zielinski 5/25/2011

"He (Barmes) could have a .000 Batting Average and still be an asset." - bradlej31 5/28/2012

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#168 User is offline   jeffr92 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:16 PM

QUOTE (ecbenito @ Jun 26 2009, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
fine use that as the projection slot for #12 is $1,620,000 (and I never saw anyone projecting him at 12, but i'll bite), . If the pirates offered him between 1.5M and 1.75M, do you really think it's worth the risk of holding out next year when your ceiling is 1.62M and there is a much better than 50% chance you'll get drafted in the mid to late 20s? I would kick my agent in the balls if he advised me this way.

Even projecting him to be a mid to late 20s selection in 2010 is generous.
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#169 User is offline   mvk112 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:18 PM

QUOTE (The Lumber Company @ Jun 26 2009, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Links?


I'm sorry I don't bookmark every mock draft I come across.
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#170 User is offline   The Lumber Company 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:20 PM

QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jun 26 2009, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm sorry I don't bookmark every mock draft I come across.

Monarch, is that you?

Google. Have at it!
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#171 User is offline   mvk112 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:21 PM

QUOTE (LonghornBuc @ Jun 26 2009, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is this thread epic yet? I think its epic. Its rare that a non PJ, non monarch thread ever had such a beatdown. mvk, you lost before you started.

Fatchez threads are what lawyers call tar babies. Dont know why. But you dont want one.


You only think I lost because the people here don't agree with the pick. It has nothing to do with the reality of the situation of Sanchez signing for slot money.
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#172 User is offline   mvk112 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:21 PM

QUOTE (The Lumber Company @ Jun 26 2009, 03:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Monarch, is that you?

Google. Have at it!


If you want to find them, you look them up.
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#173 User is offline   GoBucs21 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:21 PM

QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jun 26 2009, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would have him working out in Miami for the next month and a half, waiting for the Pirates to get serious. If the offer never was upped, he'd be going back into the draft next year, just like Crow and Scheppers did.

Also, and I may be mistaken, but I thought there was something last year that said the team had to put in a qualifying offer at least at slot in order to get the compensation pick the following year. I thought that was why there was an initial offer in June/July that they made Boras, but then they never got back to talking until mid August came around.

What is a qualifying offer? If its the slot money, then MLB's dumber than I give them credit for. Because if a team over drafts, MLB is mandating that they over pay.

Scheppers and Crow will both likely lose money for their agents efforts. Crow's agents are the worst because they greatly over valued their client's worth and his leverage. I don't that Crow gets the $3.6M that the Nationals offered. He will be lucky to get $3M. I'm guessing more like $2.5M. You like them would be providing your client a disservice by not understanding your client.
"It's probably true. Trump probably did it, because people in power tend to think they can do whatever they want, whenever they want, and usually get away with it."
17 April 2017
Winter's response to my post that Trump may have raped a teenage girl.

Moral courage is a more rare commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence.
Robert F. Kennedy

Day of commemoration to honor the Victims of Bowling Green, April 1, 2017.
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#174 User is offline   The Lumber Company 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:23 PM

QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jun 26 2009, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you want to find them, you look them up.

Why would I do that, when (a) I don't believe that they actually exist and (b) I'm not the one making contentions that just aren't in touch with what I deem to be reality.
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#175 User is offline   mzimmerman81 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:24 PM

QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jun 26 2009, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You only think I lost because the people here don't agree with the pick. It has nothing to do with the reality of the situation of Sanchez signing for slot money.



So why did you lose the Ayala argument?
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#176 User is offline   mvk112 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:24 PM

QUOTE (GoBucs21 @ Jun 26 2009, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What is a qualifying offer? If its the slot money, then MLB's dumber than I give them credit for. Because if a team over drafts, MLB is mandating that they over pay.


I took that to mean it was slot money or above. It was likely done to keep teams from using a draft pick and not actually offering a contract, then getting rewarded for it. I can't find the article I saw it in last year, though, so maybe it is incorrect and it was edited.
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#177 User is offline   mvk112 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:26 PM

QUOTE (The Lumber Company @ Jun 26 2009, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why would I do that, when (a) I don't believe that they actually exist and (b) I'm not the one making contentions that just aren't in touch with what I deem to be reality.


Probably because I don't really care enough if you don't believe I saw them or not. There was even talk, and I'm sure Jeffr remembers it, because I believe he posted it here, that the Padres were considering drafting Tony Sanchez at #3.
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#178 User is offline   Penguin 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:26 PM

QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jun 26 2009, 12:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You only think I lost because the people here don't agree with the pick. It has nothing to do with the reality of the situation of Sanchez signing for slot money.

Wrong. It's because:

1. Many people here don't agree with the pick.

2. You've done a horrible job defending yourself.
"The business of baseball is to make money, not break even. I don't understand why you think the Pirates should run their team like a charity." - Willlton 6/18/2009

"The Bay trade doesn't look like it (a slam dunk winner), but if you take into account the fact that all they lost was eight months of Jason Bay's services, as well as the fact that even the Red Sox look like they won't be able to re-sign him, it's not nearly the loser many people seem to think." - tWTM 11/26/2009

"Morton is finding himself, now while this may sound weird and out there, but the fact he put on a solo concert at Piratefest shows he finally has the confidence that he lacked within himself that he didn't have in the lower minors." - aso513 2/8/2010

"Dave Littlefield vindicated." - Xiga 4/30/2011 after one scoreless inning of relief by Daniel Moskos.

"Hanrahan and Cedeno would be a gross overpayment for Belt. Sorry, but I'll stick with my realistic analysis of the market and the teams involved." - Steve Zielinski 5/25/2011

"He (Barmes) could have a .000 Batting Average and still be an asset." - bradlej31 5/28/2012

"The last time the Pirates won an extra-inning game in St. Louis that lasted at least 16 frames was April 20, 1986 at Chicago." - Kristy Robinson 8/19/2012

"I want to tweet something clever and interesting to you that will earn your respect and make you smile, since you do that to me all the time." - jpbucco to Colin Dunlap 4/12/2016

"If the Pirates had acquired Giancarlo Stanton from the Marlins, Im not sure they would have won the Benedict trade." - David Todd 11/11/2015
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#179 User is offline   mvk112 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:27 PM

QUOTE (mzimmerman81 @ Jun 26 2009, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So why did you lose the Ayala argument?


I didn't lose that argument. It was a supposed nothing transaction that would have cost the team nothing and blocked nobody at the MLB level.
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#180 User is offline   The Lumber Company 

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:27 PM

QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jun 26 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Probably because I don't really care enough if you don't believe I saw them or not. There was even talk, and I'm sure Jeffr remembers it, because I believe he posted it here, that the Padres were considering drafting Tony Sanchez at #3.

So you go directly to the "I don't care what you think" defense now? Seriously, is this monarch? Is someone playing a trick on the board here?
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