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Pirates Spring Training Thread Rate Topic: -----

#141 User is offline   Bustanutting 

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Posted Today, 08:27 AM

Well then you're a perfect fan for this loser organization. Hoard prospects, most of which of course never work out because that's what prospects do... and justify not trying by saying "it won't put us over the top". You want guarantees before you commit to trying. So does Bob Nutting, I'm sure. "Is Cole and ace? Will Cutch rebound? Will somebody get hurt? What if bad things happen??!???"

Say it for me.

"The move won't make us a contender"
"We shouldn't mortgage the future"

Then make me a prospect list and tell me how awesome the guys in the low minors look and how 2020 is really looking good when they finally get here.

It's 1992 -2012 all over again!
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#142 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted Today, 08:30 AM

That's honestly a pretty douchey response after I thought we were having a fairly civil conversation.

I just don't think that losing our top 3 prospects in the same trade for Jose Quintana comes close to making this team a playoff contender. Therefore, I am not in favor of such a trade.
"The problem in this country, is that almost no one's sense of community or country extends beyond their wallet." -GoBucs
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#143 User is offline   Bustanutting 

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Posted Today, 08:37 AM

 Winterset Resurrection, on 25 March 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

That's honestly a pretty douchey response after I thought we were having a fairly civil conversation.

I just don't think that losing our top 3 prospects in the same trade for Jose Quintana comes close to making this team a playoff contender. Therefore, I am not in favor of such a trade.


That's a douchebag position, considering that the pitcher you're trading for is controlled for FOUR YEARS. Do you not think we can compete for four years?

You're using the boilerplate scaredycat response for not trading for a rental, which this is not. You need to move down the excuse list to at least "we shouldn't mortgage the future" to make sense.

Maybe even further down the list to "too many eggs in one basket" or "his best years are probably behind him"
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#144 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted Today, 08:47 AM

You're just being a huge asshole right now.

So because I don't think giving up our top 3 prospects will put the Pirates into playoff position, you're dropping me down into the OBN crowd now?

Holy shit. Now this is picking a fight just for the sake of having a fight.
"The problem in this country, is that almost no one's sense of community or country extends beyond their wallet." -GoBucs
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#145 User is offline   jestor92 

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Posted Today, 09:35 AM

The window for the pirates is closed. Realistically they probably would be better off gutting the team right now and setting their sights on 2021 because there isn't a chance they are winning the central anytime soon with the roster the cubs have.

As for Quintana that isn't a move that is smart for them at this moment. There are far to many holes and questions on this team to be sending three top prospects out.

In the rotation you have Cole coming off an injury plagued year. Does that continue? Taillon has had a lot of injury problems, can he stay healthy? Nova had a second half that was video game like. He's sucked for the majority of his career prior. Which player shows up? Finally even adding Quintana you still are running one of Kuhl, Brault, Williams, Hutchinson out there as the #5. I like Kuhl and think he can be a solid #4 if everything goes right a decent #3 but the rest of those guys suck.
In the pen you have Watson who sucked as a closer, doesn't look any better this spring. Hudson who had an overall crap stat line last year. Rivero could be dominant but also has control issues. Then you've got a bunch of spare parts.
Offensively will Cutch rebound and what will his trade return be? Who picks up the lost power from Mr Dui? One area I'm surprised no one really mentioned is which Cerevelli do we get the one who was very good in 15 or the one who had 16 extra base hits and an OPS under .700? Can JHay rebound? Which Polanco is real, the first half that was good or the not so good second half Polanco? Will Marte's ankle be an issue? Finally how do they make up the lost production from last year's bench?

If they were coming off the 98 win season then yes you make that trade to get Quintana. Coming off the last two off seasons where Opie was hibernating and McNutting was swimming in his vault of money, no.
Jose Tabata, Pedro Alvarez, and Andrew McCutchen are the new Jason Kendall, Brian Giles, and Kevin Young (in his prime) players that are good, but surrounded by crap which will make them losers.
Who needs a good team on the field when you have fireworks and bobbleheads!
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#146 User is offline   Sloshy 

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Posted Today, 10:17 AM

 jestor92, on 25 March 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

The window for the pirates is closed. Realistically they probably would be better off gutting the team right now and setting their sights on 2021 because there isn't a chance they are winning the central anytime soon with the roster the cubs have.

That's defeatist bullshit. We have no idea if we'll ever have even this much talent under contract again. We are much closer to being competitive than ever during the 1994-2010 run of awful. To punt because the Cubs are good? That's a shitty perspective.

Quintana helps this team go back to being a 90+ win team. His upgrade over Nova as a #3 has a domino effect, with Nova as #4 a huge upgrade over Kuhl, and Kuhl's a significant upgrade over whoever they were considering for #5.

Cole, Taillon and Quintana could be a top-three top of the rotation. And the offense has been a top-5 for the last five years.
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#147 User is offline   NYPirate 

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Posted Today, 10:23 AM

 Bustanutting, on 25 March 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

That's a douchebag position, considering that the pitcher you're trading for is controlled for FOUR YEARS. Do you not think we can compete for four years?

You're using the boilerplate scaredycat response for not trading for a rental, which this is not. You need to move down the excuse list to at least "we shouldn't mortgage the future" to make sense.

Maybe even further down the list to "too many eggs in one basket" or "his best years are probably behind him"

You only have Cutch for one more year if that. Who do you suggest replaces Meadows as our top offensive replacement? Moving Bell to OF just creates another hole at 1B. Add to that Kang drinking his way out of the majors, they will also have a gaping hole at 3B. Josh Harrison stinks, Cervelli has health issues, and there are bullpen question marks as well(Watson/Bastardo last year of contracts).

So in short, yes I have very serious concerns they can't compete for four years. Simple solution to this would be to spend some fucking money.
``Weve got some holes were looking to fill. We dont feel like we desperately have to do anything. Were in a great spot to be in. If we can upgrade, outstanding. Upgrade at an appropriate acquisition cost, even better.
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#148 User is online   silverspring 

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Posted Today, 10:27 AM

Blow up the team for what? In hopes we can assemble corr players as good as Polanco, Marte, McCutchen, Cole and Taillon and then supplement through trades and FA signings?
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#149 User is offline   Dale Berra's Nose 

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Posted Today, 10:34 AM

So unless you're coming off a 98-win season you blow it up? 98 wins??? Holy shit, this board has jumped the fucking shark.
IS THIS THE GAME THREAD???
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#150 User is offline   NYPirate 

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Posted Today, 10:44 AM

 Dale Berra, on 25 March 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

So unless you're coming off a 98-win season you blow it up? 98 wins??? Holy shit, this board has jumped the fucking shark.

I'm not suggesting to blow up the team. I don't think giving up the farm for Quintana is wise. He's not good enough.
``Weve got some holes were looking to fill. We dont feel like we desperately have to do anything. Were in a great spot to be in. If we can upgrade, outstanding. Upgrade at an appropriate acquisition cost, even better.
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#151 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted Today, 10:55 AM

View Postsilverspring, on 25 March 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

Blow up the team for what? In hopes we can assemble corr players as good as Polanco, Marte, McCutchen, Cole and Taillon and then supplement through trades and FA signings?


I don't think this "core" of the 2017 Pirates is nearly as sure of a thing as you apparently do.

McCutchen- Franchise cornerstone for years, but probably into the statistical descent phase of his career.

Polanco- All the potential in the world, but only a 96 OPS+ over 1,400 MLB at-bats. That is no longer a small sample size.

Cole- I just don't know what the real Gerrit Cole is yet. Is he the guy who posted an amazing 149 ERA+ in 2015, or the guy that's averaged a 106 ERA+ his other 3 seasons?

Taillon- I think this guy's been an amazing story, essentially coming back from the prospect dead. He had one hell of an impressive 2016 debut with a 124 ERA+. But he's far from a sure thing, and can he stay healthy?

Marte- Of the group, the only player that is both in the prime of his career, and has consistent statistical production to back it up.
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#152 User is offline   Dale Berra's Nose 

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Posted Today, 11:17 AM

 NYPirate, on 25 March 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

I'm not suggesting to blow up the team. I don't think giving up the farm for Quintana is wise. He's not good enough.

Yeah, I'm not sure I like that trade, either. The price is just too high.
IS THIS THE GAME THREAD???
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#153 User is offline   jestor92 

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Posted Today, 11:50 AM

The goal of team should be to win the championship. Even with Quintana this team isn't winning the division. I doubt they're even the second best team in the division with Quintana. Best thing that happens with Quintana they make the second wild card. That's tough to get to because now you have to teams like the nats or Mets, Dodgers or giants don't win more games then your team because if/when they do you just sold the farm for a guy who isn't putting you over the top.

This team is closer to a perennial loser then they are competing for the world series and the talent is only going to continue to fall off. Let's be honest Cutch is gone either at the deadline or next off-season. You know Opie isn't going to want another Brian Giles situation, Watson is gone as well. Cole will be one year closer to FA. Their window is shut. I hope I'm wrong, but i doubt i am
Jose Tabata, Pedro Alvarez, and Andrew McCutchen are the new Jason Kendall, Brian Giles, and Kevin Young (in his prime) players that are good, but surrounded by crap which will make them losers.
Who needs a good team on the field when you have fireworks and bobbleheads!
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#154 User is offline   BadAndy79 

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Posted Today, 12:45 PM

Glasnow, once again in his 3rd inning, has shit the bed again. Painful.
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#155 User is offline   jestor92 

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Posted Today, 01:13 PM

 BadAndy79, on 25 March 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

Glasnow, once again in his 3rd inning, has shit the bed again. Painful.

Against a team with two mlb starters.
Jose Tabata, Pedro Alvarez, and Andrew McCutchen are the new Jason Kendall, Brian Giles, and Kevin Young (in his prime) players that are good, but surrounded by crap which will make them losers.
Who needs a good team on the field when you have fireworks and bobbleheads!
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#156 User is offline   Vegetable 

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Posted Today, 01:47 PM

View PostBadAndy79, on 25 March 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

Glasnow, once again in his 3rd inning, has shit the bed again. Painful.



Yeah. After an error and a base hit, he gave up a HR that would have been a fly ball out at PNC. Cut him. He also struck out nine fucking guys in 4 innings.
"Well be comfortable adding one (starter), he said. Well be comfortable adding nobody if its just not there. We dont feel we are driven to force it. If we can add one that makes sense for us, thats great. If we can add two that make sense then we do that.
Opie Taylor. In a decisive moment.
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#157 User is offline   jestor92 

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Posted Today, 02:02 PM

Glasnow is their best option for #5, but i can see them sending him back to AAA to help smooth out his delivery a bit more and continue to build his confidence.
Jose Tabata, Pedro Alvarez, and Andrew McCutchen are the new Jason Kendall, Brian Giles, and Kevin Young (in his prime) players that are good, but surrounded by crap which will make them losers.
Who needs a good team on the field when you have fireworks and bobbleheads!
0

#158 User is offline   Winterset Resurrection 

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Posted Today, 02:11 PM

Unfortunately, he's not even their best option for #5 right now. He's gotten destroyed this spring.
"The problem in this country, is that almost no one's sense of community or country extends beyond their wallet." -GoBucs
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#159 User is offline   Vegetable 

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Posted Today, 02:22 PM

View PostWinterset Resurrection, on 25 March 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

Unfortunately, he's not even their best option for #5 right now. He's gotten destroyed this spring.



He gave up a wind blown HR. Two earned runs. Then he struck out the side. Shit happens. You cant even expect your ace to pitch a shutout every game, let alone the fifth starter. He's was throwing 95 - 97 mph fastballs with movememt and making hitters look silly with the curveball. Saying he got DESTROYED today may be the most asinine thing ever posted on the internet. If you watched him today and can still post that nonsense, you wouldn't recognize a baseball if you got hit in the face with one.
"Well be comfortable adding one (starter), he said. Well be comfortable adding nobody if its just not there. We dont feel we are driven to force it. If we can add one that makes sense for us, thats great. If we can add two that make sense then we do that.
Opie Taylor. In a decisive moment.
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