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Triangle Bullet Nate McLouth
monarch0
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 12:44 PM
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As an outfielder (excluding all pinch hitting appearances), he has the following line:

.280/.365/.400/.765
7 Doubles
1 Triple (8 of his 21 hits in 75 ABs are extra base hits)

Basically, as far as I'm concerned, he should be the starting centerfielder for the rest of the season, even when Duffy returns. Compared to Duffy, he has shown actual plate discipline, and power. And he's not afraid to steal a base. And he rarely gets caught. He is 18-19 in his career.

Duffy being hurt has coincided with one of our hottest times of the season. Anyone think that's a coincidence? I don't. Now if we could just get Paulino out of the lineup consistently and we'd only have one shitty hitter (Jack), our offense wouldn't be so bad.


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jeffr92
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 01:28 PM
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I've been saying he should get a chance to take the starting center job since he and Duffy were called up. I don't understand how an organization can pre-determine the roles players will have before they ever take their first major league at bat.
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mvk112
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 01:32 PM
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since he started getting regular time, he has played 17 games with 52 plate appearances...

BA - .261
OBP - .346
SLG - .478
OPS - .824

i'll take it, especially if we can find a right-handed compliment to him. Davis is at the below (since june 16th, the same time frame as McLouth):

BA - .286
OBP - .344
SLG - .321
OPS - .665

Davis has added 4 stolen bases, and McLouth 2.


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uberbiermensch
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 02:43 PM
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QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Jul 9 2007, 01:28 PM)
I've been saying he should get a chance to take the starting center job since he and Duffy were called up. I don't understand how an organization can pre-determine the roles players will have before they ever take their first major league at bat.

Look at their track record on that

1) Duffy - is fast & plays a great CF, he's a leadoff hitter & starter
2) Sanchez - has a club foot... utility infielder
3) Paulino - calls a great game... Starter.
4) Nady - is a great hitter even though his stats (before this year) show he's a platoon player.... Starter
5) McClouth - is fast but doesn't play a great CF, pinch hitter #4 Outfielder.
6) Doumit - gets injured a lot, and dropped a ball once while catching... backup catcher.

Any others? Looks like Nady is about the only one they are correct on, at least for this year. It's actually funny how often their players have to prove them wrong.


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 02:52 PM
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good numbers-crunching, monarch- i had no idea mclouth was that productive as a starter.

which reminds me about one time that we had a player named resto-something, who hit over .300 as a starter, and he ended up getting waived for some reason...


.WiH.


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Gahran
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 02:56 PM
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same old BS. We've had quite a few players who were more productive over longer periods of time than this.

The second Mclouth has a week or two where he didn't suck his groupies come out in force.


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PSU4Lyfe
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 02:59 PM
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QUOTE (Gahran @ Jul 9 2007, 06:56 PM)
same old BS. We've had quite a few players who were more productive over longer periods of time than this.

The second Mclouth has a week or two where he didn't suck his groupies come out in force.

When Duffy puts together back to back games of not sucking then he might actually obtain some groupies.
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defdog
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 03:02 PM
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Duffy was figuring things out before his injury...
(just pull the ball down the 1b line)

That's probably the last 6 weeks of stats.

Feel free to crunch.
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Gahran
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 03:36 PM
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if i thought duffy was the answer, you can be certain i would've mentioned him myself. Duffy sucking doesn't make Mclouth a better player.


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herrmorpheus
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 03:41 PM
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QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 9 2007, 02:52 PM)
good numbers-crunching, monarch- i had no idea mclouth was that productive as a starter.

which reminds me about one time that we had a player named resto-something, who hit over .300 as a starter, and he ended up getting waived for some reason...


.WiH.

And where is Mr. Restovich now?


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mvk112
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 04:22 PM
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QUOTE (herrmorpheus @ Jul 9 2007, 02:41 PM)
QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 9 2007, 02:52 PM)
good numbers-crunching, monarch- i had no idea mclouth was that productive as a starter.

which reminds me about one time that we had a player named resto-something, who hit over .300 as a starter, and he ended up getting waived for some reason...


.WiH.

And where is Mr. Restovich now?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/restomi01.shtml

Michael Restovich sucks, and he keeps getting worse (see above for career stats)...


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 04:24 PM
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He got a very limited # of ABs to start the season (28), and didn't do a lot with them, so he's back raking at AAA again as usual.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st..._pbp&pid=282879

I'm not going to call this guy "Jack Cust II", but if any team out there ever takes the time to give him an extended look, they won't be disappointed.


.WiH.


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jeffr92
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE (Gahran @ Jul 9 2007, 03:36 PM)
if i thought duffy was the answer, you can be certain i would've mentioned him myself. Duffy sucking doesn't make Mclouth a better player.

maybe not, but McLouth is clearly a better player than Duffy, and leaving him on the bench in favor of the annointed centerfielder is ridiculous. No one is saying McLouth is the ideal answer, but he is the best we've got until McCuth comes up.
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mvk112
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Jul 9 2007, 03:31 PM)
QUOTE (Gahran @ Jul 9 2007, 03:36 PM)
if i thought duffy was the answer, you can be certain i would've mentioned him myself. Duffy sucking doesn't make Mclouth a better player.

maybe not, but McLouth is clearly a better player than Duffy, and leaving him on the bench in favor of the annointed centerfielder is ridiculous. No one is saying McLouth is the ideal answer, but he is the best we've got until McCuth comes up.

Jeff, you need to fall in line. Jack Cust should be our everyday CF.


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Gahran
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 05:51 PM
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i'm not getting baited into duffy/mclouth.

they suck equally as far as i'm concerned.


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BigBadBucs
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 05:58 PM
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QUOTE (Gahran @ Jul 9 2007, 04:51 PM)
i'm not getting baited into duffy/mclouth.

they suck equally as far as i'm concerned.

So why are we comparing these two suckers anyway?

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LonghornBuc
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:18 AM
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QUOTE (uberbiermensch @ Jul 9 2007, 01:43 PM)
QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Jul 9 2007, 01:28 PM)
I've been saying he should get a chance to take the starting center job since he and Duffy were called up. I don't understand how an organization can pre-determine the roles players will have before they ever take their first major league at bat.

Look at their track record on that

1) Duffy - is fast & plays a great CF, he's a leadoff hitter & starter
2) Sanchez - has a club foot... utility infielder
3) Paulino - calls a great game... Starter.
4) Nady - is a great hitter even though his stats (before this year) show he's a platoon player.... Starter
5) McClouth - is fast but doesn't play a great CF, pinch hitter #4 Outfielder.
6) Doumit - gets injured a lot, and dropped a ball once while catching... backup catcher.

Any others? Looks like Nady is about the only one they are correct on, at least for this year. It's actually funny how often their players have to prove them wrong.

You guys just dont understand how brillant Dilly and Dick are. If you were smart enought to see their magnificence on all things baseball, you would never question their decisions.

Paulino is an all star, even Animal knows that.

Boy, and I thought jeff had real promise as a poster. And uber, every one of those 6 things are absolutely true, so whats your point? Havent you ever noticed, for example, that when Freddy runs he goes around the bases in a giant, somewhat squared off circle. He cant run a straight line with that foot. How do you expect him to be anything but a utility guy with that kind of shortcoming?


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:18 AM
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I just need to say that anybody who thinks replacing Chris Duffy (who sucks) with Nate McLouth (who sucks less) is the reason for our late surge is crazy.

Although I'd certainly prefer to see Nate playing everyday over Duffy, it's not all that big of a deal.


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:29 AM
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And while I'm not remotely near the fan of Restovich as I am of Cust, the last thing I'd be doing if I were some of the people in this thread would be bagging on a career minor leaguer who hasn't ever gotten a real chance like Restovich.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on the Ohio Valley defense.


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 07:04 AM
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mvk is a fucking numbnuts.



.WiH.


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mvk112
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 07:41 AM
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QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 10 2007, 06:04 AM)
mvk is a fucking numbnuts.



.WiH.

yes, because we should all be so impressed by a 28 year old guy who is posting a .828 OPS in AAA, his fourth season at that level.

now that is why the Pirates are losing, they should have Restovich in RF everyday.

if there is a guy who everyone's panties should be in a bunch about, it is Carlos Pena, who was available to anyone who wanted him for a year and a half, and had actually produced at the major league level before. he is a lefty 1B who fields very well. this guy should have been brought in last year.

yea, but Michael Fucking Restovich is the best, and we should evaluate every player we see on a half of a season, right?





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pensteel
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 07:59 AM
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I'm a fan of Restovich too. I always thought that he just needed his chance.

But when a guy can't crack the starting line up of perhaps the two worst teams in the league (Pirates and Nationals), you do have to wonder if this guy really is any good.
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u0007890
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 08:27 AM
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QUOTE (PSU4Lyfe @ Jul 9 2007, 02:59 PM)
QUOTE (Gahran @ Jul 9 2007, 06:56 PM)
same old BS. We've had quite a few players who were more productive over longer periods of time than this.

The second Mclouth has a week or two where he didn't suck his groupies come out in force.

When Duffy puts together back to back games of not sucking then he might actually obtain some groupies.

You mean in addition to Bri.


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 09:36 AM
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He batted over .300 when he started for the Pirates.

During his last game starting, he went 2-3 with a HR against Randy Johnson, on a day when he was otherwise unstoppable. I think the rest of the team had only 1 or 2 hits combined.

Then, inexplicably, he was benched for two weeks, and never saw significant action again before being released.

Since it's looking more and more like I was spot on about Cust, it would be nice to have some people give me the benefit of the doubt here...


.WiH.


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Calig23
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 09:49 AM
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QUOTE (pensteel @ Jul 10 2007, 07:59 AM)

But when a guy can't crack the starting line up of perhaps the two worst teams in the league (Pirates and Nationals), you do have to wonder if this guy really is any good.

I don't really buy this argument. Part of the reason why teams like the Pirates are so bad, is because they make poor decisions regarding the evaluation of players. So Retovich not getting a chance with the Pirates doesn't make me think that maybe Restovich isn't any good, because I don't believe the Pirates would even know if he was any good.


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mvk112
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 09:54 AM
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QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 10 2007, 08:36 AM)
He batted over .300 when he started for the Pirates.

During his last game starting, he went 2-3 with a HR against Randy Johnson, on a day when he was otherwise unstoppable. I think the rest of the team had only 1 or 2 hits combined.

Then, inexplicably, he was benched for two weeks, and never saw significant action again before being released.

Since it's looking more and more like I was spot on about Cust, it would be nice to have some people give me the benefit of the doubt here...


.WiH.

he started 9 games for the Pirates. big f'n deal, he was 12-40 in those games, or whatever.

from the time he joined the Pirates until that game he hit the homer off of Johnson, he was batting .243 and had an OPS of .759. certainly the stuff of legends.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cg...1&t=b&year=2005

and where were they going to play him? certainly not in LF, and at the time, Matt Lawton had an OPS of over .800. and once Lawton was traded, Mackowiak was outperforming Restovich anyway.



ooooh... you were so right about Jack Cust... because, as Dave Littlefield certainly knows, you should evaluate players on what they do in a half of a season, right?


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 10:20 AM
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QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 08:54 AM)

he started 9 games for the Pirates.  big f'n deal, he was 12-40 in those games, or whatever.

from the time he joined the Pirates until that game he hit the homer off of Johnson, he was batting .243 and had an OPS of .759.  certainly the stuff of legends.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cg...1&t=b&year=2005

and where were they going to play him?  certainly not in LF, and at the time, Matt Lawton had an OPS of over .800.  and once Lawton was traded, Mackowiak was outperforming Restovich anyway.



ooooh... you were so right about Jack Cust... because, as Dave Littlefield certainly knows, you should evaluate players on what they do in a half of a season, right?

12/40 = .300

The majority of Restovich's at-bats came in pinch hitting roles, in which batters perform statistically lower than when they start (see Nunez, Abraham).

How about playing him in RF then? Did we have some impact RF during that season that I've somehow expunged from my memory? Saying that there was nowhere in the Pirates' OF to play him is ridiculous. Only this season, with Bay and Nady manning the corners, is the first time since the days of Giles/Vander Wal that we've been truly solid in both LF and RF.

And Calig is exactly right. Are you going to claim that Chris Young sucks because the Pirates traded him, even though he's a potential Cy Young candidate for the Padres right now?

Teams like the Pirates and Nationals are bad because they consistently mis-evaluate players.


.WiH.


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mvk112
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 10:32 AM
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no, but chris young never was given even a token chance here. restovich has failed everywhere he has been in the majors, including Colorado, where everyone can hit.

just because you love aaaa players because their numbers look good on a computer doesn't mean you are correct about restovich. he couldnt catch on in minnesota, colorado, pittsburgh, and now washington. but all he needs is a chance, huh?

just like nobody here crowned jack wilson's ass after OPS'ing .885 the first two months of 2004, we should probably wait on a whole season from everybody, even the guy who could walk on water if he wanted to, because he can walk anywhere anyplace anytime.


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 10:53 AM
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QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 09:32 AM)
he couldnt catch on in minnesota, colorado, pittsburgh, and now washington. 


Minnesota = 66 AB over 2 seasons

Colorado = 31 AB, .353OBP, .805OPS

Pittsburgh = 84 AB

Washington = 28 AB


no, but chris young never was given even a token chance here.

Riiiiiiight. And clearly these monstrous AB numbers show that Restovich.....was?

Oh, and how about that Ramirez guy we traded a couple years ago? You know, the one who routinely hits over .300 with 30-some HR and 100-some RBI? He got a chance here, didn't he?

You really just don't have much of an argument. And again, aside from Minnesota, who boasted a loaded farm system where there were few opportunities, all of the teams you listed are perennial losers.


.WiH.


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 11:03 AM
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I'm waiting for MVK to come in and claim that we thought Jack Cust was going to have the best OPS in the history of baseball upon getting an opportunity to play everyday, thus making us completely wrong.


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 11:06 AM
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I know it's coming too. I can hear the squeaky hampster wheels slowly grinding to a halt....



.WiH.


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mvk112
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 11:08 AM
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QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 10 2007, 09:53 AM)
QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 09:32 AM)
he couldnt catch on in minnesota, colorado, pittsburgh, and now washington. 


Minnesota = 66 AB over 2 seasons

Colorado = 31 AB, .353OBP, .805OPS

Pittsburgh = 84 AB

Washington = 28 AB


no, but chris young never was given even a token chance here.

Riiiiiiight. And clearly these monstrous AB numbers show that Restovich.....was?

You really just don't have much of an argument. And again, aside from Minnesota, who boasted a loaded farm system where there were few opportunities, all of the teams you listed are perennial losers.


.WiH.

if you are going to OPS .690 in over 300 plate appearances when you do get opportunities, you are not going to stick long, especially when you defense is below average and you have no other tangible qualities like speed.


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 11:09 AM
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You're right. Speed kills.



.WiH.


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 11:10 AM
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I'm also waiting for someone to jump in and claim that we just enjoy hearing our own voice and telling everyone were right, regardless of the clear fact that 99.9% of arguments are created by dumb 3rd parties.


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 11:13 AM
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QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 03:08 PM)
QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 10 2007, 09:53 AM)
QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 09:32 AM)
he couldnt catch on in minnesota, colorado, pittsburgh, and now washington. 


Minnesota = 66 AB over 2 seasons

Colorado = 31 AB, .353OBP, .805OPS

Pittsburgh = 84 AB

Washington = 28 AB


no, but chris young never was given even a token chance here.

Riiiiiiight. And clearly these monstrous AB numbers show that Restovich.....was?

You really just don't have much of an argument. And again, aside from Minnesota, who boasted a loaded farm system where there were few opportunities, all of the teams you listed are perennial losers.


.WiH.

if you are going to OPS .690 in over 300 plate appearances when you do get opportunities, you are not going to stick long, especially when you defense is below average and you have no other tangible qualities like speed.

Again, I don't even like Michael Restovich. I think he would be a nice platooner at the MLB level, but there are people roaming around the minors I'm far more interested in (Jason Botts) that Restovich.

With that being said, what the hell can you digest by 300 MLB ABs spread out over four or five sporatic 60 AB increments?

With all due respect, that's a very dumb thing to say.


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 11:14 AM
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Jwill,

I say today, let's play along with the stereotype.

Check out this link.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4609

When you're done toweling off, come back and let's talk about it.



.WiH.


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mvk112
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 11:21 AM
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QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Jul 10 2007, 10:10 AM)
I'm also waiting for someone to jump in and claim that we just enjoy hearing our own voice and telling everyone were right, regardless of the clear fact that 99.9% of arguments are created by dumb 3rd parties.

oh yes, everyone here is dumb except WiH, JWill and Bayliss.

and watching a baseball game is meaningless as to what is happening, you can tell everything by numbers.

and records dont matter, only periphial statistics.

enlighten us all to how great you are. please.

and dump all over small sample sizes, but declare yourselves geniuses because Jack Cust puts up a great HALF season.


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 11:24 AM
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QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 10 2007, 03:14 PM)
Jwill,

I say today, let's play along with the stereotype.

Check out this link.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4609

When you're done toweling off, come back and let's talk about it.



.WiH.

One of the things I enjoy more than anything about true three outcome players is the amount of pitches they see per plate appearance.

Even more so than the fact that the difference between strikeouts and most other outs aren't all that unique, a guy like Cust (or Dunn, or Botts) is going to continue to walk and strikeout so often that his P/PA is going to outrageous.

For Cust, to along with getting on base 40% of the time, hitting the 11th most HRs in the American League despite playing in 55 games, is seeing 4.38 pitches per PA (!).

That's a lot of fucking pitches. If he qualified, that would put him 2nd in the AL, and 3rd in MLB.

Now I'm not condoning strikeouts or anything ridiculus like that, but if you have a guy seeing 20 pitches a game on his own, he's helping himself out, he's helping his team out, and he's taking SPs out of games early.

How anyone can unbiasedly look at his stats and not concede defeat to this point is pure unintentional humor, as far as I'm concerned.

And, oh yeah:

vs. LHP: .953 OPS
vs. RHP: .970 OPS


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 03:21 PM)
1. oh yes, everyone here is dumb except WiH, JWill and Bayliss.

2. and watching a baseball game is meaningless as to what is happening, you can tell everything by numbers.

3. and records dont matter, only periphial statistics.

4. enlighten us all to how great you are. please.

5. and dump all over small sample sizes, but declare yourselves geniuses because Jack Cust puts up a great HALF season.

1. Well, that certainly brought my statement revolving around people creating things I never said to fruition.

2. See one.

3. I don't even know what you're trying to say, here, but it souunds like something I didn't say.

4. Now, I can certainly do that.

5. STOP DOING THAT!!!!!! The difference between a guy like Nadys sample size, which I question, and Custs, is the fact that Nady has 4 years of MLB RHP under his belt to gauge and compare too.

What does Cust have? Oh yeah, 150 sporatic MLB ABs to show everyone how much he sucked and didn't deserve a chance. That worked out well.


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 11:38 AM
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JWill,

I really liked your analysis of pitches/plate appearance. I've never seen any post about that on the board. Tremendous work. When you consider that a SP usually doesn't reach 100 pitches during a game, and Cust is seeing around 20 on average, that means he's at least 20% responsible for eliminating another team's SP prematurely.

It's just a shame that your work is going to be read by few, buried amongst this rampant ownership of mvk.

If you reposted it separately, I would certainly give it props.


.WiH.


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 11:46 AM
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QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 10 2007, 03:38 PM)
JWill,

I really liked your analysis of pitches/plate appearance.  I've never seen any post about that on the board.  Tremendous work.  When you consider that a SP usually doesn't reach 100 pitches during a game, and Cust is seeing around 20 on average, that means he's at least 20% responsible for eliminating another team's SP prematurely.

It's just a shame that your work is going to be read by few, buried amongst this rampant ownership of mvk.

If you reposted it separately, I would certainly give it props.


.WiH.

Bayliss loves to post (I think FJM started it) the top 10 strikeout guys vs the top 10 hardest to strikeout and explain how the ladder would get the shit kicked out of them by the first, offensively.

That has always had me thinking about the possibilities of a guy like Cust (or many others) who concedes the fact that he is going to strikeout a lot, accepts it, and becomes a better offensive player for it.

The reason I say this is because it's just about impossible to look at a guys numbers and say, well, you need to strikeout 25-30 times less a year and you will be a better offensive player. Perhaps, but it's always a balancing act. If you strikeout less, you probobly walk less, and it's my opinion that even if this isn't a 1 for 1 trade off, it's making you a weaker offensive player.

If I reposted the P/PA or any corresponding statistics around it, I'd likely do it in the form of a large thread at a later date. Hopefully I can build up the energy, because at the very least, I'm nterested myself.

And just for math's sake:

A guy goes 5 innings, giving up 6 baserunners.

Freddy Sanchez: 70.98 pitches
Jack Cust: 91.98 pitches


One starting pitcher has 2/3 strong innings left in the tank, which essentially takes away what is often the weakest part of a pitching staff (middle relief).

The other start pitcher is likely already tired, and looking at another inning, tops.


That's a pretty big differance, although I'm looking at two extremes with Sanchez (3.32) and Cust (4.38).


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mvk112
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 10 2007, 10:38 AM)
JWill,

I really liked your analysis of pitches/plate appearance. I've never seen any post about that on the board. Tremendous work. When you consider that a SP usually doesn't reach 100 pitches during a game, and Cust is seeing around 20 on average, that means he's at least 20% responsible for eliminating another team's SP prematurely.

It's just a shame that your work is going to be read by few, buried amongst this rampant ownership of mvk.

If you reposted it separately, I would certainly give it props.


.WiH.

yes i feel so owned because Michael Fucking Restovich is in AAA.

damn, it must feel so great to be so right all the time...

in the meantime, Jack Cust's great first half is sponsored by Craig Wilson's 2004 first half.


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:08 PM
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QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 11:03 AM)
in the meantime, Jack Cust's great first half is sponsored by Craig Wilson's 2004 first half.

!!!

Me thinks I've found my new signature line...


.WiH.


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:10 PM
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QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 10 2007, 04:08 PM)
QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 11:03 AM)
in the meantime, Jack Cust's great first half is sponsored by Craig Wilson's 2004 first half.

!!!

Me thinks I've found my new signature line...


.WiH.

You mean comparing unsimilar players who swing baseball bats from opposite sides of the plate isn't a great way to evaluate offensive players?

Who knew?


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mvk112
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:25 PM
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QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Jul 10 2007, 11:10 AM)
QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 10 2007, 04:08 PM)
QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 11:03 AM)
in the meantime, Jack Cust's great first half is sponsored by Craig Wilson's 2004 first half.

!!!

Me thinks I've found my new signature line...


.WiH.

You mean comparing unsimilar players who swing baseball bats from opposite sides of the plate isn't a great way to evaluate offensive players?

Who knew?

nobody compared the two players, i just stated that Jack Cust's first half is sponsored by Craig Wilson's first half of 2004. no comparison was given. it was a salute to both players putting up great numbers in the first half of those respective seasons, nothing more nothing less. if you can't see that, then that is an issue with your reading comprehension.


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uberbiermensch
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:28 PM
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QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Jul 10 2007, 11:46 AM)
Bayliss loves to post (I think FJM started it) the top 10 strikeout guys vs the top 10 hardest to strikeout and explain how the ladder would get the shit kicked out of them by the first, offensively.

I'm not going to argue that strikeouts are worse than other outs, because I see that as a non-issue, but here's my opinion.

Generally there are two types of players that strike out a lot. The good hitters (Dunn, Howard, etc) and the bad (JJ Davis, Hermanson). If you're a bad hitter AND strike out, you're career is short lived and you'll never get enough bats to get into the top 10. The exception to this is Jose Hernandez who just hovered above suck for most of his career.

But if you don't strike out a lot you could also be a good or bad hitter. It's just that the bad hitters that don't strike out don't get canned as frequently (i.e. Jack, Duffy, etc) because people still think they're productive even though they suck.

So being a good hitter is more important than how you make outs. Obviously the best case is the hitters like Sheffield that are good hitters AND don't strike out, but then you're splitting hairs.


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:29 PM
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QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 11:25 AM)
nobody compared the two players, i just stated that Jack Cust's first half is sponsored by Craig Wilson's first half of 2004. no comparison was given.

You are such an idiot.

You just compared them, plain as day.

Now that Jwill called you out on it, you're backpeddaling with some lame excuse that would make the Paulino CERA reply look like the work of a Rhodes Scholar.

Just go back to the kids' table and allow the adults to finish eating.

.WiH.


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE (uberbiermensch @ Jul 10 2007, 04:28 PM)
QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Jul 10 2007, 11:46 AM)
Bayliss loves to post (I think FJM started it) the top 10 strikeout guys vs the top 10 hardest to strikeout and explain how the ladder would get the shit kicked out of them by the first, offensively.

I'm not going to argue that strikeouts are worse than other outs, because I see that as a non-issue, but here's my opinion.

Generally there are two types of players that strike out a lot. The good hitters (Dunn, Howard, etc) and the bad (JJ Davis, Hermanson). If you're a bad hitter AND strike out, you're career is short lived and you'll never get enough bats to get into the top 10. The exception to this is Jose Hernandez who just hovered above suck for most of his career.

But if you don't strike out a lot you could also be a good or bad hitter. It's just that the bad hitters that don't strike out don't get canned as frequently (i.e. Jack, Duffy, etc) because people still think they're productive even though they suck.

So being a good hitter is more important than how you make outs. Obviously the best case is the hitters like Sheffield that are good hitters AND don't strike out, but then you're splitting hairs.

Exactly.

And another thing, which I mentioned earliar, is putting a price tag of striking out.

I am thoroughly convinced that guys like Adam Dunn and Jack Cust could strikeout less if they really wanted to.

However, it would likely cause them to swing at pitches earliar in the count, and be less selective in pitches they swing at all together.

Thus, it would certainly hurt their walk rates, and could probobly put a dent in some of their BABIP rates as well.

And quite frankly, I think both of them understand that that trade-off blows as far as being a productive offensive player.

BB + K >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No BB + No K


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mvk112
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:33 PM
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QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 10 2007, 11:29 AM)
QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 11:25 AM)
nobody compared the two players, i just stated that Jack Cust's first half is sponsored by Craig Wilson's first half of 2004.  no comparison was given.

You are such an idiot.

You just compared them, plain as day.

Now that Jwill called you out on it, you're backpeddaling with some lame excuse that would make the Paulino CERA reply look like the work of a Rhodes Scholar.

Just go back to the kids' table and allow the adults to finish eating.

.WiH.

where the fuck did i compare the two players?

just fucking show me, asshole?

tell me how the fuck "Jack Cust's great first half is sponsored by Craig Wilson's 2004 first half" compares the two in any remote fucking way?

go strap one on and fuck Jack Cust in the ass, cause I have no doubt you are a dickless wonder.


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:40 PM
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QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 04:33 PM)
QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 10 2007, 11:29 AM)
QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 11:25 AM)
nobody compared the two players, i just stated that Jack Cust's first half is sponsored by Craig Wilson's first half of 2004.  no comparison was given.

You are such an idiot.

You just compared them, plain as day.

Now that Jwill called you out on it, you're backpeddaling with some lame excuse that would make the Paulino CERA reply look like the work of a Rhodes Scholar.

Just go back to the kids' table and allow the adults to finish eating.

.WiH.

where the fuck did i compare the two players?

just fucking show me, asshole?

tell me how the fuck "Jack Cust's great first half is sponsored by Craig Wilson's 2004 first half" compares the two in any remote fucking way?

go strap one on and fuck Jack Cust in the ass, cause I have no doubt you are a dickless wonder.

You didn't compare the two?

What exactly were you doing, then?


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greybeard131
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:42 PM
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LETS TALK ABOUT JACK CUST TWO YEARS FROM NOW!!!


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:42 PM
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I'm going to compare Tike Redmans awesome half season a few years ago to Chris Duffys awesome half season a few years ago.

I know some of you are going to read between the lines to get the idea that I think both of them were a fucking fluke and thats percisely why I'm comparing the two of them, but I'm just making a point about how terrific both of these players were during those respective seasons.


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:43 PM
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Yes mvk, what exactly was it that you were doing?

If the two were completely unrelated as you claim, their simultaneous presence in your post must be viewed as a sheer coincidence.

Is that what you are telling us? What it simply a chance cosmic alignment that brought Jack Cust and Craig Wilson together in your post?


.WiH.


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mvk112
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:44 PM
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as i said above, i was saluting jack cust by sponsoring his first half with another great first half... it could have been jack wilson first half 2004, it could have been carlos pena first half 2007, it could have been turner ward second half 1997...

im sorry that you can't comprehend what you are reading...


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:47 PM
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QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 10 2007, 04:43 PM)
Yes mvk, what exactly was it that you were doing?

If the two were completely unrelated as you claim, their simultaneous presence in your post must be viewed as a sheer coincidence.

Is that what you are telling us? What it simply a chance cosmic alignment that brought Jack Cust and Craig Wilson together in your post?


.WiH.

Or perhaps that a percieved Wilson 'drop-off' ever since the first half of '04 might be some kind of shitty and feeble attempt at a comparison from a guy who obviously hates Jack Cust and is blatantly trying to insinuate a similar 'drop-off' despite the fact that no evidance exists supporting the claim itself.

One of the two, would be my guess.


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Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:47 PM
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Jack Cust's first half is sponsored by the lube I use to rub one out everytime I see his stats.


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:50 PM
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QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 04:44 PM)
as i said above, i was saluting jack cust by sponsoring his first half with another great first half... it could have been jack wilson first half 2004, it could have been carlos pena first half 2007, it could have been turner ward second half 1997...

im sorry that you can't comprehend what you are reading...

So, your notion for dismissing the claim of your blatant comparison is to list a bunch of other players you likely feel are/were 'one-half-wonders'?

Huh?


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 11:44 AM)
im sorry that you can't comprehend what you are reading...

I think the bigger problem is that you cannot comprehend what you are typing.


.WiH.


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Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:52 PM
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QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 04:44 PM)
im sorry that you can't comprehend what you are reading...

I'm sorry, could you retype that in numbers? I don't understand words or letters, only statistics.


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:55 PM
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QUOTE (OldUsernameWas StrandedByBayliss @ Jul 10 2007, 04:52 PM)
QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 04:44 PM)
im sorry that you can't comprehend what you are reading...

I'm sorry, could you retype that in numbers? I don't understand words or letters, only statistics.

.267/.393/.572


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mvk112
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:55 PM
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QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Jul 10 2007, 11:47 AM)
QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 10 2007, 04:43 PM)
Yes mvk, what exactly was it that you were doing?

If the two were completely unrelated as you claim, their simultaneous presence in your post must be viewed as a sheer coincidence.

Is that what you are telling us?  What it simply a chance cosmic alignment that brought Jack Cust and Craig Wilson together in your post?


.WiH.

Or perhaps that a percieved Wilson 'drop-off' ever since the first half of '04 might be some kind of shitty and feeble attempt at a comparison from a guy who obviously hates Jack Cust and is blatantly trying to insinuate a similar 'drop-off' despite the fact that no evidance exists supporting the claim itself.

One of the two, would be my guess.

Yes, i clearly hate Jack Cust, he is the bane of my existence. i don't know how i go on living life with him posting a .965 first half OPS in 220 plate appearances. how will my world ever be the same? hopefully for my sake he will go on as he has in his past week and OPS .640, because if he doesn't, i might just lose all interest in the Pirates. After all, in addition to being one of 29 teams that caused Jack Cust to spend his last 6 years in AAA, they released Michael Restovich.



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Jeff King
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 12:58 PM
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QUOTE (OldUsernameWas StrandedByBayliss @ Jul 10 2007, 08:47 AM)
Jack Cust's first half is sponsored by the lube I use to rub one out everytime I see his stats.

That's a bit frightening. Not that I have anything against Jack Cust. tongue.gif


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"Time wounds all heals."--John Lennon 1976


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Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:00 PM
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QUOTE (Jeff King @ Jul 10 2007, 04:58 PM)
QUOTE (OldUsernameWas StrandedByBayliss @ Jul 10 2007, 08:47 AM)
Jack Cust's first half is sponsored by the lube I use to rub one out everytime I see his stats.

That's a bit frightening. Not that I have anything against Jack Cust. tongue.gif

It would be more frightening if you knew how often I saw his stats. Or if I didn't use lube. wink.gif


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penguin8334
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:00 PM
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QUOTE (Winters in Holland @ Jul 10 2007, 09:43 AM)
If the two were completely unrelated as you claim, their simultaneous presence in your post must be viewed as a sheer coincidence.

Speaking of coincidences, why was it Winter was the only one NOT to make it to the game on Friday while JwILL did?
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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:00 PM
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"HAH!!!!

Dairy Queen indeed!

I said a couple of weeks ago that he might not even make it to the end of June before he is sent down. If it wasn't for one Adam Hyzdu circa July 2002-esque 10 game stretch, nobody except JWill would know Cust's name.

From May 10 to May 19, he had OPS'd 1.596

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cg...7&t=b#74:83:sum

Since then, in twice the amount of games, his OPS has been .502.

I still think, as I stated then, that Cust is gone once Piazza comes off the DL."



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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:01 PM
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"so when it suits your needs, JWill, we can talk about sample size, but when it comes to Jack Cust having 30 great at bats and the rest less than mediocre, well, 100 at bats is more than enough to declare Cust the Muhammed Ali of baseball.

and I stand by my assertion that I made two weeks ago that Xavier Nady will end the year with a higher OPS than Jack Cust.

the only saving grace may be if Jack Cust is sent down tomorrow after another horrible day at the plate. "


"does anybody know the difference over the course of 600 at bats that .030 OBP makes?

18 times on base...

yes, clearly that is such a defining stat that a guy who OBP's .375 is so much better than a .345 guy.

and Jack Cust will be in AAA again by end of June to put up his monster numbers again.

Just call him Adam Hyzdu."


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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:02 PM
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It's just a coincidance that I accidently posted these quotes in this thread.


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mvk112
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:04 PM
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QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Jul 10 2007, 12:00 PM)
"HAH!!!!

Dairy Queen indeed!

I said a couple of weeks ago that he might not even make it to the end of June before he is sent down. If it wasn't for one Adam Hyzdu circa July 2002-esque 10 game stretch, nobody except JWill would know Cust's name.

From May 10 to May 19, he had OPS'd 1.596

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cg...7&t=b#74:83:sum

Since then, in twice the amount of games, his OPS has been .502.

I still think, as I stated then, that Cust is gone once Piazza comes off the DL."

Mike Piazza is still on the DL.

and Jack Cust has rebounded after OPSing .502 for almost a month. and I have said nothing bad about him since. Sorry if you take offense to me saying "Jack Cust's great first half is sponsored by Craig Wilson's 2004 first half."

I'm glad you went back about a month to find that post. I'm sure you are damn proud of yourself.





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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:06 PM
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Is it just a coincidence that penguin showed up once the topic of "lubing up" was mentioned?


.WiH.


PS Great find on that post, Jwill. I think sometimes people tend to forget that their claims are recorded here for future contradictory reference.


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Also, Winter just provides us with the threads that are most active usually, because they are controversial or just plain stupid, and stupid is gold here. --tdippo
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PSU4Lyfe
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:07 PM
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Didn't read the whole thread but going back a little I have to say a job well done by JWill. Seeing pitches is one attribute that I absolutely love a player to have and P/PA is something I've been looking at for some time(Bobby Abreu is always near the top in that stat), to an extent of course. A guy like Freddy Sanchez is a free swinger and it works out well for him because he has such superior barrel control that he can get away with it. Pitches that may not be in his "red zone" he still hits doubles and singles with them because he knows what he is doing. But if a player, like Cust, can see a lot of pitches and be very productive he is an asset to his team. Most teams don't have a deep bullpen, so if you can help out by getting the SP out of the game early then you are helping your team tremendously.
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buccosmfg
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:09 PM
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This is like Larry Holmes versus Tex Cobb

I remember watching it on TV and wondering when the beating would end, why the guy just didn't go down, but he kept coming back for more.


Where is the referee in this thread, someone needs to stop the beating.

user posted image


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Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:09 PM
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QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 05:04 PM)
Mike Piazza is still on the DL.

Well, perhaps you should do a bit of research around the internet to find out why exactly Mr. Piazza is still on the DL.

You know I could absolutely Winter-esqe own you right now, but I'll give you a quick chance to correct this obvious lapse in judgement....




Who am I kidding?

MIKE PIAZZA IS STILL ON THE DL BECAUSE HE'S BEEN CONVERTED BACK TO CATCHER SO THAT JACK CUST CAN REMAIN THE DH WHEN PIAZZA RETURNS FROM THE DISABLED LIST!!!!!!!


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OldUsernameWas StrandedByBayliss
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:10 PM
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QUOTE (PSU4Lyfe @ Jul 10 2007, 05:07 PM)
Didn't read the whole thread but going back a little I have to say a job well done by JWill. Seeing pitches is one attribute that I absolutely love a player to have and P/PA is something I've been looking at for some time(Bobby Abreu is always near the top in that stat), to an extent of course. A guy like Freddy Sanchez is a free swinger and it works out well for him because he has such superior barrel control that he can get away with it. Pitches that may not be in his "red zone" he still hits doubles and singles with them because he knows what he is doing. But if a player, like Cust, can see a lot of pitches and be very productive he is an asset to his team. Most teams don't have a deep bullpen, so if you can help out by getting the SP out of the game early then you are helping your team tremendously.

Along the lines of this, I think if you could assemble a team that is full of players who see a lot of pitches and are still productive, your offensive production would be off the charts. Especially in an extended series or even a playoff series when the opposition's bullpen would get worn down.

The Yankees lineup after they acquired Abreu last year was very good at seeing pitches and it worked out very well for them. SPs rarely lasted longer than 5-6 innings, and often did not even last that long.


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Jeff King
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:11 PM
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QUOTE (buccosmfg @ Jul 10 2007, 09:09 AM)
This is like Larry Holmes versus Tex Cobb

I remember watching it on TV and wondering when the beating would end, why the guy just didn't go down, but he kept coming back for more.


Where is the referee in this thread, someone needs to stop the beating.


He was great in Raising Arizona.


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"Time wounds all heals."--John Lennon 1976


"We already have a number of very talented players in the Minor League system with whom our instructors and coaches are working very hard to maximize their talent so that they can contribute to the championships." -- Frank Coonelly 5/7/08


"Our team is basically the team we have." -- Dave Littlefield 6/24/07
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mvk112
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:13 PM
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I could care less why he is on the DL, I just stated that he is on the DL.

Maybe you have a problem with reading, and always have to think there is more to everything than there is, I cant help you there.


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buccosmfg
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:13 PM
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QUOTE (Jeff King @ Jul 10 2007, 01:11 PM)

He was great in Raising Arizona.

don't forget the cameo appearance in Fletch Lives

Ben Dover is penguin's credited gay porn name


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Jeff King
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:16 PM
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QUOTE (buccosmfg @ Jul 10 2007, 09:13 AM)
QUOTE (Jeff King @ Jul 10 2007, 01:11 PM)

He was great in Raising Arizona.

don't forget the cameo appearance in Fletch Lives

Ben Dover is penguin's credited gay porn name

You know Ben Dover's sister right?

Ilene Dover.


--------------------
"WHAT IS THE GAZLANY STORY?"--Bree 11/8/08


"Time wounds all heals."--John Lennon 1976


"We already have a number of very talented players in the Minor League system with whom our instructors and coaches are working very hard to maximize their talent so that they can contribute to the championships." -- Frank Coonelly 5/7/08


"Our team is basically the team we have." -- Dave Littlefield 6/24/07
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JwILLsCERA
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 05:13 PM)
I could care less why he is on the DL, I just stated that he is on the DL.

Maybe you have a problem with reading, and always have to think there is more to everything than there is, I cant help you there.

Yea, you're right. Sorry for making the connection with that your prediction of "Cust being gone when Piazza comes off the DL" as an idea that you didn't think the A's thought enough of Cust to carry him on the roster once Piazza returned. Yes, indeed, my bad. Sorry again for thinking that the fact of a healthy Piazza sitting in Oakland's minor league facility today working on his arm strength because the A's have already made the clear cut decision that Cust will be DH'ing through the all-star break and through Piazza's eventual return meant anything. Uh huh, I appoligize from the bottom of my heart for taking your incorrect prediction and proving such with overwhelming evidance.

Wont happen again.


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penguin8334
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:19 PM
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QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 10:13 AM)
I could care less why he is on the DL, I just stated that he is on the DL.


Apparently you do care why he is on the DL or you wouldn't have brought it up. And from what I can gather, you brought it up as a reason Cust is still on the A's.

So not only was your assumption wrong, but even if it had been right, it was wrong.

Basically you're wrong.
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Jeff King
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:21 PM
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Predicition.

Name calling and insults coming very soon in this thread.


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"WHAT IS THE GAZLANY STORY?"--Bree 11/8/08


"Time wounds all heals."--John Lennon 1976


"We already have a number of very talented players in the Minor League system with whom our instructors and coaches are working very hard to maximize their talent so that they can contribute to the championships." -- Frank Coonelly 5/7/08


"Our team is basically the team we have." -- Dave Littlefield 6/24/07
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Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:24 PM
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user posted image


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penguin8334
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:24 PM
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QUOTE (Jeff King @ Jul 10 2007, 10:21 AM)
Predicition.

Name calling and insults coming very soon in this thread.

If that prediction comes true, I have another.

Jeff King gets out the lube.
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Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:24 PM
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First, the allegations were that Jack Cust would be back in the minors by the end of June.

Now, since that has been proved wrong, it is he has a small sample size of only 220 PAs. Sure, he has had a good 1st half, but I don't think he will prove it over the course of the full year.

At the end of the year, I predict something along the lines of "many players have career years, look at Joe Crede last year" or something along those lines.

After Cust dominates again next year it will be "Jack Cust will be either terrible or out of baseball within the next 15 years".

And then after it is proven that Cust is indeed immortal and has no ill effects of getting older, and is still dominating the MLB in 2048, mvk will finally admit he was wrong.

So you know, if all that happens, maybe he will just say he was wrong.


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Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:24 PM
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QUOTE (OldUsernameWas StrandedByBayliss @ Jul 10 2007, 12:10 PM)
QUOTE (PSU4Lyfe @ Jul 10 2007, 05:07 PM)
Didn't read the whole thread but going back a little I have to say a job well done by JWill.  Seeing pitches is one attribute that I absolutely love a player to have and P/PA is something I've been looking at for some time(Bobby Abreu is always near the top in that stat), to an extent of course.  A guy like Freddy Sanchez is a free swinger and it works out well for him because he has such superior barrel control that he can get away with it.  Pitches that may not be in his "red zone" he still hits doubles and singles with them because he knows what he is doing.  But if a player, like Cust, can see a lot of pitches and be very productive he is an asset to his team.  Most teams don't have a deep bullpen, so if you can help out by getting the SP out of the game early then you are helping your team tremendously.

Along the lines of this, I think if you could assemble a team that is full of players who see a lot of pitches and are still productive, your offensive production would be off the charts. Especially in an extended series or even a playoff series when the opposition's bullpen would get worn down.

The Yankees lineup after they acquired Abreu last year was very good at seeing pitches and it worked out very well for them. SPs rarely lasted longer than 5-6 innings, and often did not even last that long.

you know, way back when I first looked at OBN it was because the guy that has his articles on the front page did a study of pitches per plate appearance and concluded something about it having little positive effect.

I remember disagreeing with a bunch of what he said, but I also seem to remember that many of the numbers did seem to show that it wasn't as important as I thought it was.

Oh well, I don't know how to search that site to see if the article/discussion is still there. I tried briefly and gave up.
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Jeff King
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE (penguin8334 @ Jul 10 2007, 09:24 AM)
QUOTE (Jeff King @ Jul 10 2007, 10:21 AM)
Predicition.

Name calling and insults coming very soon in this thread.

If that prediction comes true, I have another.

Jeff King gets out the lube.

I wouldn't have it any other way. Otherwise it can hurt.


--------------------
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"Time wounds all heals."--John Lennon 1976


"We already have a number of very talented players in the Minor League system with whom our instructors and coaches are working very hard to maximize their talent so that they can contribute to the championships." -- Frank Coonelly 5/7/08


"Our team is basically the team we have." -- Dave Littlefield 6/24/07
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mvk112
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:26 PM
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QUOTE (penguin8334 @ Jul 10 2007, 12:19 PM)
QUOTE (mvk112 @ Jul 10 2007, 10:13 AM)
I could care less why he is on the DL, I just stated that he is on the DL. 


Apparently you do care why he is on the DL or you wouldn't have brought it up. And from what I can gather, you brought it up as a reason Cust is still on the A's.

So not only was your assumption wrong, but even if it had been right, it was wrong.

Basically you're wrong.

i first stated that in early June when Jesus Chr... I mean Jack Cust was in the midst of a .502 OPS streak over 20 games. He has since rebounded, and I have said nothing bad about him since.

if you miscontrue something i post a month ago as something i post today, is it my fault?

All I did was state a fact that Mike Piazza is on the disabled list still. I did not restate my belief of onetime that Jesus Chr.. I mean Jack Cust will be sent down when Piazza comes back.

Please visit this sight for further explanations.


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Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:27 PM
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QUOTE (oblongatta @ Jul 10 2007, 05:24 PM)
QUOTE (OldUsernameWas StrandedByBayliss @ Jul 10 2007, 12:10 PM)
QUOTE (PSU4Lyfe @ Jul 10 2007, 05:07 PM)
Didn't read the whole thread but going back a little I have to say a job well done by JWill.  Seeing pitches is one attribute that I absolutely love a player to have and P/PA is something I've been looking at for some time(Bobby Abreu is always near the top in that stat), to an extent of course.  A guy like Freddy Sanchez is a free swinger and it works out well for him because he has such superior barrel control that he can get away with it.  Pitches that may not be in his "red zone" he still hits doubles and singles with them because he knows what he is doing.  But if a player, like Cust, can see a lot of pitches and be very productive he is an asset to his team.  Most teams don't have a deep bullpen, so if you can help out by getting the SP out of the game early then you are helping your team tremendously.

Along the lines of this, I think if you could assemble a team that is full of players who see a lot of pitches and are still productive, your offensive production would be off the charts. Especially in an extended series or even a playoff series when the opposition's bullpen would get worn down.

The Yankees lineup after they acquired Abreu last year was very good at seeing pitches and it worked out very well for them. SPs rarely lasted longer than 5-6 innings, and often did not even last that long.

you know, way back when I first looked at OBN it was because the guy that has his articles on the front page did a study of pitches per plate appearance and concluded something about it having little positive effect.

I remember disagreeing with a bunch of what he said, but I also seem to remember that many of the numbers did seem to show that it wasn't as important as I thought it was.

Oh well, I don't know how to search that site to see if the article/discussion is still there. I tried briefly and gave up.

Hm, that would be interesting to see a study done on something like that.

I similar to you, have neither the time nor motivation to do the study myself. Hopefully someone who gets paid to do that kind of stuff will do one.


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Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE
I similar to you, have neither the time nor motivation to do the study myself.


apparently JWill likes to research old posts, maybe he has the time and motivation...


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Winters in Holland
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:28 PM
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I live in the mountains.
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The OBN search engine was designed by mvk.

When you type words into the search field, it fails to associate them with all similarly-occurring words, and instead just spews random results back to you.


.WiH.


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I come here for discussion, not attention. --Monarch

Also, Winter just provides us with the threads that are most active usually, because they are controversial or just plain stupid, and stupid is gold here. --tdippo
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OldUsernameWas StrandedByBayliss
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:28 PM
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Tebow - Heisman = Joe Ganz
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A LINK TO HOOKED ON PHONICS?!

ZING!


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"There have been many pitchers that have pitched as starters that have struck guys out and been terrible, i.e. Kerry Wood."
-tdippo
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