SI Players poll, Seriously, how stupid are these players?
monarch0 |
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There was a poll in SI that asked the most meaningful hitting
statistic. Much like the retarded pitchers answers, the players said
RBIs is the most meaningful, ahead of on base percentage. OPS was 4th. 4th! Then this jackass that was linked in the other thread talks about it. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...ay.scoop/2.html"Those
who keep writing me about what a meaningless stat RBIs are, please note
that an SI player poll found that 41 percent of players said RBIs are
the most important stat. And, no, I didn't put anyone up to it." Uhh,
just because a bunch of the players say it, doesn't vindicate you.
Baseball players are, on the whole, a very stupid portion of society.
They don't even "get" their own game. They might know strategy and
situations, but they don't know what makes things work. I can't believe
they are this dumb.
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NYPirate |
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QUOTE (monarch0 @ Sep 27 2007, 06:56 PM) |
Uhh,
just because a bunch of the players say it, doesn't vindicate
you. Baseball players are, on the whole, a very stupid portion of
society. They don't even "get" their own game. They might
know strategy and situations, but they don't know what makes things
work. I can't believe they are this dumb. |
and
just because a bunch of pencil pushing stat geeks push OPS and WHIP
doesn't make it the end all be all of statistics. Nobody made a big
deal about OPS and all these other bullshit numbers until nerds were
able to use a computer and get away from their blow up dolls. So what
did the geeks do? They came up with formulas to derive new statistics
because they couldn't throw a ball or swing a bat to save their life.
So go ahead and take your OPS's and WHIPs. I'll stick with AVG, HR's,
RBI's, ERA, and that thing called Wins and Losses.
So now
ballplayers are "dumb" because they don't sit around a water cooler
saying "I have a better WHIP than you". That's a brilliant assessment.
When do all of these stats border overanalization?
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JwILLsCERA |
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QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 28 2007, 02:21 AM) |
and just because a bunch of pencil pushing stat geeks push OPS and WHIP
doesn't make it the end all be all of statistics. Nobody made a big
deal about OPS and all these other bullshit numbers until nerds were
able to use a computer and get away from their blow up dolls. So what
did the geeks do? They came up with formulas to derive new statistics
because they couldn't throw a ball or swing a bat to save their life.
So go ahead and take your OPS's and WHIPs. I'll stick with AVG, HR's,
RBI's, ERA, and that thing called Wins and Losses.
So now
ballplayers are "dumb" because they don't sit around a water cooler
saying "I have a better WHIP than you". That's a brilliant assessment.
When do all of these stats border overanalization? |
Wow, I can't believe we actually have a celebrity here at MGP.
Welcome, Mr. Morgan, you will quickly seek relief from the nerds around here from guys like MVK.
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ecbenito |
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QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 09:21 PM) | QUOTE (monarch0 @ Sep 27 2007, 06:56 PM) |
Uhh,
just because a bunch of the players say it, doesn't vindicate
you. Baseball players are, on the whole, a very stupid portion of
society. They don't even "get" their own game. They might
know strategy and situations, but they don't know what makes things
work. I can't believe they are this dumb. |
and
just because a bunch of pencil pushing stat geeks push OPS and WHIP
doesn't make it the end all be all of statistics. Nobody made a big
deal about OPS and all these other bullshit numbers until nerds were
able to use a computer and get away from their blow up dolls. So what
did the geeks do? They came up with formulas to derive new statistics
because they couldn't throw a ball or swing a bat to save their life.
So go ahead and take your OPS's and WHIPs. I'll stick with AVG, HR's,
RBI's, ERA, and that thing called Wins and Losses.
So now
ballplayers are "dumb" because they don't sit around a water cooler
saying "I have a better WHIP than you". That's a brilliant assessment.
When do all of these stats border overanalization?
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don't you and greybeard have a cross to go burn in a colored person's front yard?
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NYPirate |
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QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Sep 27 2007, 09:42 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 28 2007, 02:34 AM) | 2) My team will kick the geek squads ass. |
OK.
I'll draft Albert Pujols (101 RBI).
You can have Raul Ibanez (103).
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Games played is not a new stat.
And the only person that would take Ibanez over Pujols is the person that thinks Jack Cust is a good ballplayer.
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QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Sep 27 2007, 09:51 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 28 2007, 02:46 AM) | And the only person that would take Ibanez over Pujols is the person that thinks Jack Cust is a good ballplayer. |
1.
You're right. Albert Pujols' 155 games have really been an RBI
subtractor when you measure them up against Raul Ibanez' 149 games.
2. Right again, anyone who thinks .259/.410/.513 is a good ballplayer needs to have their head examined.
Son, you have a chance to take quite the rise up the retard chain in this thread. Don't let MVK down.
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Cust has done it for one year, and you're quick to be on his nuts. Nady has improved each year but yet he's no good?
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Scruff McGruff, Chicago Illinois, 60652

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QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 28 2007, 02:55 AM) | QUOTE (ecbenito @ Sep 27 2007, 09:52 PM) | I'm sure Ryan Braun is losing a lot of sleep because he has less RBI than adrian fucking beltre and therefore is not as good
defdog would be proud of you |
Average his stats over 162 games and I think his stats would look better.
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Sort of like if you average out Pujols' and Ibanez'?
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Scruff McGruff, Chicago Illinois, 60652

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Well, Hanley Ramirez, you might be the MVP of the National League, but I think Jason Bay, Bengie Molina, Sammy Sosa, Orlando Cabrera, and Freddy Sanchez are all better offensive contributors.
But fear not, H-Ram, you got Vernon Wells (.708 OPS) by 1 RBI!
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NYPirate |
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QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Sep 27 2007, 09:56 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 28 2007, 02:53 AM) | Cust has done it for one year, and you're quick to be on his nuts. Nady has improved each year but yet he's no good? |
Nady
has 'improved each year' to the point where he can come within .105 OPS
points of what is basically Custs rookie season, including about an .80
point difference in terms of getting on base.
Good comparison.
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Christ, you're not the same guy that said Craig Wilson is Carlos Lee
are you? Let's have Cust play more than a full season and get dumped by
a few more teams before we pronounce him god, k?
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jeffr92 |
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QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 10:53 PM) | QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Sep 27 2007, 09:51 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 28 2007, 02:46 AM) | And the only person that would take Ibanez over Pujols is the person that thinks Jack Cust is a good ballplayer. |
1.
You're right. Albert Pujols' 155 games have really been an RBI
subtractor when you measure them up against Raul Ibanez' 149 games.
2. Right again, anyone who thinks .259/.410/.513 is a good ballplayer needs to have their head examined.
Son, you have a chance to take quite the rise up the retard chain in this thread. Don't let MVK down.
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Cust has done it for one year, and you're quick to be on his nuts. Nady has improved each year but yet he's no good?
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Seriously? You think Nady is better than Cust?
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NYPirate |
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QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Sep 27 2007, 10:01 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 10:53 PM) | QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Sep 27 2007, 09:51 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 28 2007, 02:46 AM) | And the only person that would take Ibanez over Pujols is the person that thinks Jack Cust is a good ballplayer. |
1.
You're right. Albert Pujols' 155 games have really been an RBI
subtractor when you measure them up against Raul Ibanez' 149 games.
2. Right again, anyone who thinks .259/.410/.513 is a good ballplayer needs to have their head examined.
Son, you have a chance to take quite the rise up the retard chain in this thread. Don't let MVK down.
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Cust has done it for one year, and you're quick to be on his nuts. Nady has improved each year but yet he's no good?
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Seriously? You think Nady is better than Cust?
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That wasn't my point. My point was he's quick to put down Nady who has
improved each year, but he'll jump all over Cust, who has been dumped
by several teams, for 1 good season.
To answer your question, I don't know. But Nady was pretty damned good this year when he wasn't hurt.
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QUOTE (DoctorJohnnyFever @ Sep 27 2007, 10:03 PM) |
What do you think we're doing?
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Circle Jerking? You've shown me nothing.
All you've shown is a bunch of dumb examples. Show me your OPS AllStars.
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jeffr92 |
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QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 11:04 PM) | QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Sep 27 2007, 10:01 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 10:53 PM) | QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Sep 27 2007, 09:51 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 28 2007, 02:46 AM) | And the only person that would take Ibanez over Pujols is the person that thinks Jack Cust is a good ballplayer. |
1.
You're right. Albert Pujols' 155 games have really been an RBI
subtractor when you measure them up against Raul Ibanez' 149 games.
2. Right again, anyone who thinks .259/.410/.513 is a good ballplayer needs to have their head examined.
Son, you have a chance to take quite the rise up the retard chain in this thread. Don't let MVK down.
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Cust has done it for one year, and you're quick to be on his nuts. Nady has improved each year but yet he's no good?
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Seriously? You think Nady is better than Cust?
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That
wasn't my point. My point was he's quick to put down Nady who has
improved each year, but he'll jump all over Cust, who has been dumped
by several teams, for 1 good season.
To answer your question, I don't know. But Nady was pretty damned good this year when he wasn't hurt.
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Cust never got a full oppurtunity to show he can put up the numbers he
did when he was in the minors. Oakland gave him that chance and have
been rewarded. Where exactly does Xavier Nady come into play?
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NYPirate |
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QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Sep 27 2007, 10:07 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 28 2007, 03:04 AM) | But Nady was pretty damned good this year when he wasn't hurt. |
And by 'pretty damned good' I'm assuming you meant, 'about .110 OPS points worse than Cust', right?
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Nope. I don't acknowledge OPS.
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QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 28 2007, 03:06 AM) | QUOTE (DoctorJohnnyFever @ Sep 27 2007, 10:03 PM) |
What do you think we're doing?
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Circle Jerking? You've shown me nothing.
All you've shown is a bunch of dumb examples. Show me your OPS AllStars.
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Ok, here is our team:
C - Jorge Posada 1B - Carlos Pena 2B - Chase Utley SS - Hanley Ramirez 3B - Alex Rodriguez RF - Matt Holliday CF - Curtis Granderson LF - Barry Bonds DH - David Ortiz
Your turn. Don't forget Raul Ibanez.
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NYPirate |
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QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Sep 27 2007, 10:15 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 28 2007, 03:14 AM) | Fine, without looking at OPS. and basing this off of traditional stats.
1) Ichiro 2) Hanley Ramirez 3) Magglio Ordonez 4) A-Rod 5) David Ortiz 6) Vlad Guerrero (DH) 7) Matt Holliday 8) Chase Utley 9) You pick the catcher
That's a pretty damn good lineup. |
Why am I picking the catcher? And why do Ichiro and H-Ram get to man the top of your lineup without those all important RBI?
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Speed. Doesn't take statistics to know you put the fastest players towards the top.
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QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 10:17 PM) | QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Sep 27 2007, 10:15 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 28 2007, 03:14 AM) | Fine, without looking at OPS. and basing this off of traditional stats.
1) Ichiro 2) Hanley Ramirez 3) Magglio Ordonez 4) A-Rod 5) David Ortiz 6) Vlad Guerrero (DH) 7) Matt Holliday 8) Chase Utley 9) You pick the catcher
That's a pretty damn good lineup. |
Why am I picking the catcher? And why do Ichiro and H-Ram get to man the top of your lineup without those all important RBI?
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Speed. Doesn't take statistics to know you put the fastest players towards the top.
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are you Jim Tracy?
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NYPirate |
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QUOTE (ecbenito @ Sep 27 2007, 10:24 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 10:23 PM) | QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Sep 27 2007, 10:22 PM) | I want to see his WHIP-less pitching staff |
Of course you do because I just proved my point.
How about you show me your OPS All Stars first?
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fuckstick, I think they did about 20 posts ago
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Good, then I'll take my team over Granderson, Wilson, Sanchez, and Ibanez. I hope that really wasn't their team.
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tobaccoroad |
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Jack Cust comes from my hometown!!

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QUOTE (JwILLsCERA @ Sep 27 2007, 10:19 PM) | Why isn't Placido Polanco your starting 2B? His average is way higher than Utleys. |
I assume that you are over-simplifying his arguement for dramatic
effect. If not, the "traditional" (read: non-geeky) view would take in
a bunch of traditional stats together as a whole. To me, the important
ones have always been HR, RBI, R, AVG, SB...then secondarily 2B and
3B...also "traditional" stats guys do look at games played, so Chase
gets the nod over Cano or others because his stats are comparable and
he missed some 30+ games.
I do love finding out new stat
categories...but I think that the best players are the best players no
matter which stats you use. I would think that the more in depth stats
are better for comparing players from different eras, or for comparing
lower tier types (like Nady), or for prediction of future success or
failure based on trends, etc...
Shoes
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ecbenito |
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QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 10:25 PM) | QUOTE (ecbenito @ Sep 27 2007, 10:24 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 10:23 PM) | QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Sep 27 2007, 10:22 PM) | I want to see his WHIP-less pitching staff |
Of course you do because I just proved my point.
How about you show me your OPS All Stars first?
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fuckstick, I think they did about 20 posts ago
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Good, then I'll take my team over Granderson, Wilson, Sanchez, and Ibanez. I hope that really wasn't their team.
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fucktard, learn to read.
QUOTE | Ok, here is our team:
C - Jorge Posada 1B - Carlos Pena 2B - Chase Utley SS - Hanley Ramirez 3B - Alex Rodriguez RF - Matt Holliday CF - Curtis Granderson LF - Barry Bonds DH - David Ortiz |
please show me ibanez, wilson and sanchez on that list.
you are building a temple to the idiot gods right now with your posts
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NYPirate |
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QUOTE (ecbenito @ Sep 27 2007, 10:26 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 10:24 PM) | QUOTE (ecbenito @ Sep 27 2007, 10:22 PM) | why not put chone figgins and his .336 BA in at 3B, he's batting at least 20 pts higher than Arod |
Again, are you fucking retarted? Compare A-Rods traditional stats with Chones and come talk to me (AVG, HRs, RBIs)
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so
now we're going to use multiple traditional stats in relation to each
other to compare players by position, that sounds kinda complicated and
involves a lot of math
THE NERDS HAVE ALREADY WON
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What's the matter? Your poor little OPS. got shut down now we're
grasping for straws? Poor baby, maybe mommy can read you Money Ball to
put you to sleep.
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NYPirate isn't basing his lineup on stats. So he's not even making the proper argument.
But
look, just run a regression analysis on every team's runs scored this
year along with variables such as AVE, SLG, OBP, OPS, Walks, etc. and
you will see VERY CLEARLY that out of all of those stats, Average is by
far and away the least predictive of runs scored and OBP is usually
first.
Feel free to download any of the statistical databases
out there with all past MLB stats and you will come to the same
conclusions. If you are going to strictly use stats, if you want to
build a team that scores runs, OBP should be your priority over
average. If you honestly can't run a regression analysis even in a
basic spreadsheet program like Excel, then perhaps you shouldn't be
speaking about stats intelligently.
And if a remote sense of intelligent makes anyone a geek, man, then it's pretty freakin' cool to be a geek.
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QUOTE (ecbenito @ Sep 27 2007, 10:28 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 10:25 PM) | QUOTE (ecbenito @ Sep 27 2007, 10:24 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 10:23 PM) | QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Sep 27 2007, 10:22 PM) | I want to see his WHIP-less pitching staff |
Of course you do because I just proved my point.
How about you show me your OPS All Stars first?
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fuckstick, I think they did about 20 posts ago
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Good, then I'll take my team over Granderson, Wilson, Sanchez, and Ibanez. I hope that really wasn't their team.
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fucktard, learn to read.
QUOTE | Ok, here is our team:
C - Jorge Posada 1B - Carlos Pena 2B - Chase Utley SS - Hanley Ramirez 3B - Alex Rodriguez RF - Matt Holliday CF - Curtis Granderson LF - Barry Bonds DH - David Ortiz |
please show me ibanez, wilson and sanchez on that list.
you are building a temple to the idiot gods right now with your posts
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You know what's funny, 7 of your 9 players can be derived from
traditional statistics. Which proves my original fucking point! Thank
you.
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QUOTE (CRIMHEAD @ Sep 27 2007, 10:29 PM) | NYPirate isn't basing his lineup on stats. So he's not even making the proper argument.
But
look, just run a regression analysis on every team's runs scored this
year along with variables such as AVE, SLG, OBP, OPS, Walks, etc. and
you will see VERY CLEARLY that out of all of those stats, Average is by
far and away the least predictive of runs scored and OBP is usually
first.
Feel free to download any of the statistical databases
out there with all past MLB stats and you will come to the same
conclusions. If you are going to strictly use stats, if you want to
build a team that scores runs, OBP should be your priority over
average. If you honestly can't run a regression analysis even in a
basic spreadsheet program like Excel, then perhaps you shouldn't be
speaking about stats intelligently.
And if a remote sense of intelligent makes anyone a geek, man, then it's pretty freakin' cool to be a geek. |
I'm not? Don't tell me what I'm fucking doing. Every player on my team
is in the top 10 of one or more of the traditonal statistics.
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jeffr92 |
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QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 11:31 PM) | QUOTE (ecbenito @ Sep 27 2007, 10:28 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 10:25 PM) | QUOTE (ecbenito @ Sep 27 2007, 10:24 PM) | QUOTE (NYPirate @ Sep 27 2007, 10:23 PM) | QUOTE (jeffr92 @ Sep 27 2007, 10:22 PM) | I want to see his WHIP-less pitching staff |
Of course you do because I just proved my point.
How about you show me your OPS All Stars first?
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fuckstick, I think they did about 20 posts ago
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Good, then I'll take my team over Granderson, Wilson, Sanchez, and Ibanez. I hope that really wasn't their team.
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fucktard, learn to read.
QUOTE | Ok, here is our team:
C - Jorge Posada 1B - Carlos Pena 2B - Chase Utley SS - Hanley Ramirez 3B - Alex Rodriguez RF - Matt Holliday CF - Curtis Granderson LF - Barry Bonds DH - David Ortiz |
please show me ibanez, wilson and sanchez on that list.
you are building a temple to the idiot gods right now with your posts
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You
know what's funny, 7 of your 9 players can be derived from traditional
statistics. Which proves my original fucking point! Thank you.
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your original point said OPS was a worthless statistic, you have
essentially combined the traditional stats to form a makeshift OPS stat
(of course you wouldn't call it OPS) to build your team.
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